C900T - new ceramic exhaust manifold

[euromobile900]

omaroo your car looks like an 8 valve with mechanical injection, is this correct? can you tell me a bit more about your car (and that camshaft cover)!

That engine is different to yours. It is an earlier design, known as the "B" engine, hence the different valve cover. The really early examples had "TRIUMPH" stamped on them!

I've got an 84 900 8v turbo, I'm interested in getting a bit more power out of it, nothing silly though! How are you running 17psi - it looks like you have upgraded ignition is this correct? Trionic 5? is that stock injection still? are you running water injection too?

Ignition on that is stock. The dizzy is in a different spot because it's a B-engine. The water injection is stock as well, but only on this particular model. You can see a tutorial about how to install the stock water injection here. And you can see more about this very special model, the Enduro, here.

[s900t8v]

so is Omaroo getting 17psi on a stock engine with stock ignition and just water injection? That's pretty significant, or has he done other modifications to allow this?

Is his engine any different to mine strength wise or just design wise...

[euromobile900]

so is Omaroo getting 17psi on a stock engine with stock ignition and just water injection? That's pretty significant, or has he done other modifications to allow this?

The Enduro may have had a tweaked fuel system from the factory (still K-Jetronic like yours), but the engine was stock in terms of rods and bearings and pistons.

Is his engine any different to mine strength wise or just design wise...

B-engine is, in some places (notably the water pump drive), slightly weaker. The crank, rods, mains, and pistons, are probably about the same durability, and definitely not stronger!
However, the design difference is significant. His car was not equipped with APC, so SAAB designed the engine with only 7.2:1 compression to reduce the chances of knocking, whereas yours, being an APC turbo with a knock sensor, has a higher compression ratio of 8.5:1. Lower compression in the cylinders means you can run higher boost without knocking. It also means more turbo-lag and worse gas mileage. Kind of the nature of the beast for any non-APC turbo, though! The 99t B rally engines had even lower compression, 6.5:1--but FWD rallying is done with foot to floor (no worries for turbo lag) and gas mileage is not a concern.

[s900t8v]

euro you are full of knowledge, that's all really interesting to know!, what do you think would be the best path for me to go down to just get a bit more boost, water injection is reasonably cheap ($200ish) I don't know how good they are but it seems like there is reasonable benefits to be had, when compared with an intercooler which could be $300+ I'm inclined to go WI, because it's easier as well! haha, my car's getting 7-10psi boost which is around stock depending on fuel octane, I want to get it up just a bit more say solidly hitting 12-13 psi would be fantastic irrespective of fuel quality! Do you think WI could facilitate this? People talk about Trionic 5 all the time, I'm interested in it as well, would it be worth looking into this, there are a lot of 9000turbo wrecks floating around Australia!

Thanks for the advice!

[omaroo]

Thanks for answering the posted question Sam - much appreciated. It's been busy here...

Everything about my engine is "stock" - if that's the term you'd apply about any ex-factory mods being done. None have been made, apart from this new turbo with the larger compressor. I've had it hit 21lbs and have backed the wastegate actuation down again to about 17-18lb as per stock setting for the Enduro. Water injection isn't functioning at the moment, but mainly because of the low-ish compression ratio I haven't heard it ping. I also only run with 98 octane fuel. I'm looking at rebuilding the water injection system as per original "Turbo S" specs - of which the Enduro was an early adopter. I'm also currently looking for a decent (internally-finned) intercooler at the moment. The eBay bar & plate cheapies without this internal finning don't cut the mustard. Intercooling in Australia is a MUST - it's too hot not to.

As far as the B-engine goes, it's only a handful of kilos heavier than the newer H-motor. As Sam has intimated, the water pumps are weak, and mine went a while back. It's been replaced with an external Davies Craig electric water pump which churns more water through the system anyway.

With the brand new CIS fuel injectors I installed a couple of weeks ago, my average fuel consumption is now around 9.5L/100km, or 24.75 mpg (US). This isn't bad really for such an old performance-oriented car. It goes like proverbial stink on the highway - overtaking is truly a non-event. Fantastic. The rest of the fuel system is stock K-Jet, with maybe a slightly revised metering setup at top end. I actually think that there is less turbo lag on this car than there is on my T16 Aero, and 1st gear acceleration is far, far stronger.

[s900t8v]

Yeah I've just had my fuel distributor and warm up regulator acid dipped and reassembled with new parts, new CIS injectors and have done myself a full service - air fuel oil filter and new fluids, set the base boost at 4psi (I probably could turn it up a bit more?), I have a cold start issue which I am sure is because I put the wrong part number aux air valve in and so cold crank takes a bit and it has a really low idle and very rich smelll (once at temperature car idles like a sewing machine smooth and quiet, and doesn't smell fuelly) I'm just going to try pick a replacement up from a wrecker along with a new cold start injector as I think mine is blocked...

Ok yeah I understand now youcan get way more boost because of the low compression ratio, what is more worthwhile for me with a higher CR, getting WI or getting an intercooler? if I was going to intercool I could get the original Saab Blackstone intercooler for the Aero's and ALL the associated original fitment parts for $250 I think... (if the person still has it for sale) this is the same cost as WI or the kits I've seen? Which would help me reach my goal of 13-15psi more easily? Of course before any boost uppage I'll be installing my 3" elbow back exhaust.

[omaroo]

What fuel to you typically use?

4lbs boost? Geez - it's hardly worth it at that. Go 7 or 8 at least.

[s900t8v]

I'm running APC, I meant my base boost is set at 4psi recommended 4-5psi in Bentley manual, I get between 7 and 10psi based on fuel, 98 gets up around 9-10psi, but I get knock in certain weather as it's not intercooled. I don't wanna get rid of my A/C so I don't really wanna install a FMIC, I could get the blackstone kit used in the Aeros and stuff for around $250 or I could get water injection, that's my dilemma that I'm looking for advice on which will get better results. I want to get 121315 psi if possible with a bit of APC system tweaking, but I can't run that boost with knock, so I guess I was asking you as I thought you were running WI, but it must just be the low compression ratio!

[euromobile900]

I don't wanna get rid of my A/C so I don't really wanna install a FMIC, I could get the blackstone kit used in the Aeros and stuff for around $250 or I could get water injection, that's my dilemma that I'm looking for advice on which will get better results.

I'd say get a c900 T16 intercooler from a junkyard. A FMIC may fit with A/C. Look around at your options.

I'm inclined to go WI, because it's easier as well! haha, my car's getting 7-10psi boost which is around stock depending on fuel octane, I want to get it up just a bit more say solidly hitting 12-13 psi would be fantastic irrespective of fuel quality! Do you think WI could facilitate this? People talk about Trionic 5 all the time, I'm interested in it as well, would it be worth looking into this, there are a lot of 9000turbo wrecks floating around Australia!

With T5 on an 8v, some bodging is required. Not only will you need a Trigger Wheel, but you will also need to drill your intake manifold out for electronic fuel injectors, install a few relays, and fix some sparkplug wires from the Direct Ignition Cartridge to your spark plugs. I've seen T8s with T5 Direct Ignition Cartridge mounted to the fender, which would probably increase its life due to fewer vibrations. Here's a pic:


If you want to adjust fuel for more boost and WI or IC, tweaking the K-Jet is something Porsche and VW fans are way better at. I'd check out some of their sites, as well as reading up on how the thing works. Here's a link for a bit of K-Jet info.
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