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  1. #21
    Scot
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    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Ohhhhhh......OIL THREAD!!!!!

    OK...anyone that has come to know me this past few weeks knows that OIL is a pet peeve of mine! BUT, needless to say, by couching it in THIS way (relevant only to 2003- 9-3's) makes it much more manageable to talk about. Why does OIL chaff my arse so bad? Because there are SO MANY opinions out there, opinions that can change from car to car and expert to expert...and we will most likely never find a common ground that everyone is comfortable sticking with. And we all know opinions are like assholes...everyone has one and thinks there's doesn't stink...

    Here's my overall perspective before I even attempt to go into detail (which won't be tonight as I promised my wife I'd be home before 8pm without a speeding ticket)...

    If one knows what ones doing, is it possible for Dino to be just as effective as Synth if you change more frequently, change per season, alter per driving condition, etc, etc? Yes, probably.
    Can Synth give you more ease of mind and save you precious time waiting for your car or doing it yourself? Maybe...

    Do I like or dislike Synth? Yes.

    Here's the problem...besides general populous perspectives on the very basics of the synth versus dino discussion, there are a plethora of experts out there who also vary due to experience level, understanding of the chemistry and physics behind synth, dino, and engines in general.

    Besides the 250 billion opinions, collections of facts, scientific data, studies, tests, etc, etc...there are a million combinations of different and unique situations in which a given recommendation for synth over dino or dino over synth would change. For instance...a 1989 Saab with 450,000 miles on it and factory engine/turbo untouched that has run Dino since it left the assembly line --- would one recommend that said car should be switched to Mobile-1 in the middle of a Dallas, TX August? I, for one, would NOT as the properties of synth would most likely end up with an oil-stained driveway. And that's just ONE specific example?

    See my rantings on the thread: how synthetic oil blew 3 engines in my 2005 9-2x Aero and you'll see how a TON of seasoned Saab mechanics and district managers gave me their professional opinion that synth kills 9-2x Aeros, as well as many other points i try to make to bring some logical conclusion to a 4 year old question in my head regarding boxer engines, synthetic oil, and other ingredients possible to draw a different conclusion.

    Also engine types come into play...was the entire engine and ancillary parts (e.g. type of oil filter used) designed specifically with synth in mind? Was an old engineering technique used that was originally designed for optimal dino oil? For instance, at one point Subaru was making oil filters to allow a bypass of the filter when high pressure and fast lubrication to the flat boxer engine was needed...was this an engineering technique needed for thicker dino oil and thus not needed for synth? Are there any implications to running synth in an engine with specific mechanics built-in specifically for running dino, when one runs thin/slippery synth and spends an hour in and out of high performance driving?

    I have so much to post on this subject and probably even more questions to ask on this subject...but quickly one more point and one more question:

    1- when an auto manufacturer stamps "use Mobile-1" on a car's engine compartment and prints it in the manual, doesn't it make one wonder why, when there are so many synths out there to choose from...even a Saab synth at one point, they would single out a brand and choose to ship it from the plant with Mobile-1 in it (and make a big deal about it)? IMHO it's was all about the marketing and bundle deals between Mobile-1 and GM/Saab. And why was the 9-2x Aero the only Saab to NOT recommend Mobile-1 or ANY synth and recommended "conventional oil every 7,500"? Hmmmmm....

    2-As far as my 2011 9-3 Aero goes...I'm running Mobile-1, but my question is on the SID. Does it really only quote oil quality and days to change based on an algorithm that is affected by driving habits? There's NO ACTUAL readings it takes into account from the oil itself (e.g. viscosity)? I've noticed it changing its percentage and time to next oil change updating less when I drive a nice pace for 2 hours compared to driving hard (90-130MPH) on a 28 minute commute home...but I always thought it must take another measure into account other than average speed ratio to miles driven...


    Schizen, I gotta run to the parking garage to get the jet...lol, wife's going to be pissed I have to work on a launch plan tonight.....

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  2. #22
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    1- when an auto manufacturer stamps "use Mobile-1" on a car's engine compartment and prints it in the manual, doesn't it make one wonder why, when there are so many synths out there to choose from...even a Saab synth at one point, they would single out a brand and choose to ship it from the plant with Mobile-1 in it (and make a big deal about it)? IMHO it's was all about the marketing and bundle deals between Mobile-1 and GM/Saab. And why was the 9-2x Aero the only Saab to NOT recommend Mobile-1 or ANY synth and recommended "conventional oil every 7,500"? Hmmmmm.....
    The 2006 9-2X owners manual shows using synthetic engine oil

    Recommended grade and viscosity
    Oil grade: ILSAC GF-4, which can be identified with the ILSAC certification mark (Starburst mark)
    or API classification SM with the words “ENERGY CONSERVING”

    Synthetic oil
    You can use synthetic engine oil that meets the same requirements given for conventional engine oil. When using synthetic oil, you must use oil of the same classification, viscosity and grade shown in this owner’s manual, and must follow the oil and filter changing intervals shown in the maintenance schedule.
    As far as I know, Saab doesn't say anything about a specific brand of oil in their manuals. The only Mobil 1 reference I have seen is a sticker in the engine bay area.

    On a side note, it's Mobil 1, not Mobile 1..

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  3. #23
    Scot
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    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Mobil-1 kills 2005 9-2x Aero engines

    Huh? The production year 2004's for model year 2005 owner's guides clearly stated (at least the one I rec'd with my new car purchase early 2005) 'conventional oil at 7,500 mile intervals'. And read my thread on the 9-2x Aero engine deaths, there's a scan of the invoice from JMK Saab for the second engine replacement that states in 2 places *"!!!! PLEASE USE ONLY CONVENTIONAL ENGINE OIL AT SPECIFIED INTERVALS AS PER OWNERS MANUAL!!!!"*. Maybe the 2006 and some/all 2005 production-year models didn't specify the same thing? That is VERY strange...quite vexing indeed. Can you send me a scan of the manual? It would be great for my very large collection of clues that I hope to one day find a concrete answer on (such as Saab screwing up an oil pump on PY 2004 9-2x's). Initially I was trying to warn potential buyers of used 9-2x Aeros to check oil change records and run away if you see Synth or long periods without proof of oil changes at the specified intervals, now I just want an answer. I had over 25 oil changes done in 5 years on that stupid 9-2x (not counting the 6 changes associated with the new engine installments/break-ins) and still blew bearings 3 times.


    Lol.....yes, I can, and often do, laugh at my "speelling" errors...just another pharma exec who's spelling sux (it's what happens when you grow up with a computer that has spell check, though from Jr. high - high school it was a Apple 2e with crappy spell check abilities).

    "Mobil-1" it is...thanks for the spelling lesson before I spelled it 90 more times with an "e"!

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    Last edited by ScotHibb; 23 November 2011 at 17:15. Reason: Combined 2 similar posts

  4. #24
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
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    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    My new 9-3 came with a plate under the hood "only use Mobile-1".

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  5. #25
    Dave T.
    Super Moderator Dave T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    My new 9-3 came with a plate under the hood "only use Mobile-1".
    My 2005 has a Mobil 1 sticker, too. However, the recommendations in the owner's manual is that you can use any oil with a GM LL-A-025 specification. GM no longer licenses that specification, replacing it with what I think is a more lax Dexos 1 standard.

    Mobil 1's website has language to the effect that Mobil 1 0W-40 (only that grade) meets GM-LL-A-025. Castrol Syntec European Forumula 0W-30 in the U.S. also met the previous GM standard but Castrol is introducing new names for its oils. Total Quartz Energy 9000 was another.

    I previously thought of converting to Castrol but I've decided to stick with Mobil 1 0W-40. There are sales in different stores in the U.S. periodically for about $5 per quart.

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  6. #26
    Dave T.
    Super Moderator Dave T's Avatar
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    For 2005 and earlier 9-3's in the U.S., the SID algorithm was to change the oil every 2 years or when the computer, taking into account trip length, number of starts, temperature, or some other parameters, said so, which was 8,500-15,000 miles. In 2006, I think the algorithm was changed to 1 year because Saab thought that having the car checked every 2 years was too infrequent. I think the oil interval was also adjusted down to 10,000 miles.

    In the past, I changed the oil yearly or at 50%, whichever came first. In reality, it was 50% at about 10-12 months.

    Because the weather is getting colder, but not yet cold, I am thinking of changing it at 67%, which is now, and 33%. Or maybe be lazy and stick with my previous schedule of 50%. Any opinions? I just got a bunch of oil filters, which may be why I'm itchy to use one! My analytical part of my brain thinks that 50% is fine. My restless part of my brain thinks that 67% and 33% is the way to go this year.

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  7. #27
    Joe
    Third Saab's a Charm Warren Demontague's Avatar
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    2010 9-3SS 2.0T
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave T View Post

    I previously thought of converting to Castrol but I've decided to stick with Mobil 1 0W-40. There are sales in different stores in the U.S. periodically for about $5 per quart.
    I switched to Castrol 0w-30 because it was on sale. Haven't noticed any difference.

    And I wait until 0%. That's usually once a year for me.

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    - Joe
    2006 9-3SS Arc 5-speed
    2004 9-3SS Linear 5-speed (RIP)

  8. #28
    Dave T.
    Super Moderator Dave T's Avatar
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    I just heard of a different kind of Mobil 1 oil. It's Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

    Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30: 5W-30 Synthetic Oil | Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 5W-30
    Chart of different Mobil 1 oils: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

    The chart includes Mobil 1 0W-40 that used to list it as meeting GM-LL-A-025, which used to have "the following builder's approval: Saab, Opel" but now is listed as "is of the following quality: Saab, Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025". Later, GM started to license the dexos standard which, I believe, is more lax as dexos listed Mobil 1 oils do not even meet ACEA A3/B3 standards, which Saab used to say should be used if GM-LL-A-025 oils could not be found. Mobil 1 0W-40 meets some European car companies' standards, such as BMW Longlife 01, Mercedes Benz 229.3, 229.5. Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 meets BMW Longlife 04 and Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51. It's an ACEA C3-08, C2-08.

    I think I will stick with Mobil 1 0W-40 but may eventually convert to Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 when my supply runs out and if the ESP is easy to find. However, I think that ESP will be harder to find that 0W-40.

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  9. #29
    Renato Piereck
    Spreading the Saab virus rpiereck's Avatar
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    For me the only reasonable choice is Mobil1 0x40 right now, as that's the only compatible oil sold at the Army store here on base.

    There are plenty of compatible oils out on the German economy but even budget German oil is extremely expensive, it's like oil has gold flakes or something here. Just kidding, of course, but the price of oil here is insane, and I think it might be some environmental tax added to the oil.

    Back in Alaska of all places I could get a 5 liter bottle of Lubro Moly 5w30 (German made oil) for $36 at NAPA, but the same bottle costs almost 45 Euro here. Yes, 45 FRIGGING EURO! That's over two three times the price I paid for the same oil on the edge of civilization in North America, and this oil is probably made within 300 miles of where I live now. I have seen some premium oils costing as much as 66 euro for 5 liters here. Crazy, yes.

    And it's not just oil, any kind of other automotive fluid, from power steering to windshield washer, is expensive. On base we buy the American windshield washer fuild for $1.99 for a gallon jug, the same size jug outside the base costs about 5 Euro.

    After seeing the price of oil here in Germany I now understand why a lot of European cars started coming out with extended oil service lives, or even those on board computers that will tell you when you need to change your oil. With the huge price of oil here it makes sense to go 10,000 miles or more without a change if you don't have to.

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    Now: '00 Saab 9-5 Aero Combi - '89 Peugeot 205 CTI - '91 Peugeot 309 GTI
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  10. #30
    Frank
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    Cars and petrol are about twice as expensive in Europe compared to the US so engine oil doesn't seem to be an exception. Regular price for Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol A3/B3 is $9 a quart at my local AutoZone store so $45 for 5 quarts (almost same as liters). I only buy it when it is on sale for about $32 (5 quarts, includes oil filter) so that's a very good deal. Advanced Auto has a buy-one-get-one-free sale on Castrol Synthetic right now so $4.50 a quart. $22.50 for 5 quarts is a good deal (+6% tax) , almost makes me want to change my oil early.

    But with cars and petrol being so expensive, that should even be more reason not to save on oil changes and using inferior quality engine oil.

    Usually, either Autozone or AdvancedAuto runs a sale on either Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol Syntec oil and always includes an oil filter. I usually use that oil filter, unless it is a cheapo brand like a basic Fram filter. I have used K&N, Bosch, AC Delco and the OEM Saab filters for my Saab in the past.

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