BioPower on E85?

[Squeak]

Any performance value in running an '11 9-5 BioPower with E85 if it has had the Hirsch Engine Upgrade?

Or is the supposed HP increase from the E85 already accounted for by the Hirsch software?

[900EMS]

The answer might be yes but at a cost. The FAQ at the Hirsch website says this:

Vehicles converted to LPG, CNG or E85 in combination with Hirsch Performance upgrades
[FONT=Verdana]
The performance upgrades from Hirsch Performance are not compatible with any vehicles converted to run on LPG, CNG or E85. Using a Hirsch Performance upgrade with an LPG, CNG or E85 conversion will void the Saab Original warranty, and no technical support will be offered.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]

[FONT=arial]I guess you could interpret the above as saying the Turbo4 BioPower vehicles were designed rather than converted to run on E85. And it's hard to argue you'd void the Saab warranty since there is none at present. Nonetheless if it was me and my car had the Hirsch upgrade, I'd most likely avoid the E85. Why tempt fate?[/FONT][/FONT]

[Squeak]

Yeah, the mention that the fuel is ok for the BioPower engines:

What type of petrol is needed after a performance upgrade?
[FONT=Verdana]Petrol and BioPower vehicles with performance upgrades from Hirsch Performance have been designed to benefit from petrol rated at 98 ROZ or E85 rated at 104ROZ. They will, however run fine without any risk of engine damage on petrol rated at least at 91ROZ, thanks to the knock-detection and fuel adaptation technology in the vehicles’ ECU’s. However, especially in hot and high-altitude environments, the performance will be automatically reduced if the octane rating of the fuel used is insufficient. Besides performance, the fuel consumption will also increase slightly with lower octane fuel, due to the lower efficiency of the combustion. Hirsch Performance therefore recommends running performance upgraded cars with 98ROZ petrol, or 104ROZ E85 for BioPower cars, to achieve maximum performance and fuel efficiency. For diesel vehicles, the efficiency of the combustion is not primarily limited by the fuel’s cetane rating but by other design factors, and there are therefore no significant performance advantages with higher-rated diesel.[/FONT]

[900EMS]

I guess you've answered your own question...

[Squeak]

I guess you've answered your own question...

Not really.

People say driving the stock engine with E85 increases the power (say 220hp to 250)
Driving with the Hirsch upgrade will increase the power. (220hp to 260)

My question is this: will driving the Hirsch upgrade with E85 provide even more power ( 260hp to 290ish)?

[Brad Lauzze]

Not really.

People say driving the stock engine with E85 increases the power (say 220hp to 250)
Driving with the Hirsch upgrade will increase the power. (220hp to 260)

My question is this: will driving the Hirsch upgrade with E85 provide even more power ( 260hp to 290ish)?

People say or Saab say?

I don't think that simply purchasing the upgrade and running E85 will get you more than the 30-40HP upgrade that they list. When they write these calibrations, they're looking for optimal performance in terms of power/fuel efficiency with both road fuel and E85 otherwise the car wouldn't run. You may see improved performance, but you're definitely not going to see a dramatic increase to 290 just by switching from say 93 Octane to E85. For that kind of power increase, you'll have to start making hardware changes and/or a more aggressive ECM calibration.

[Squeak]

Not really.

People say driving the stock engine with E85 increases the power (say 220hp to 250)
Driving with the Hirsch upgrade will increase the power. (220hp to 260)

My question is this: will driving the Hirsch upgrade with E85 provide even more power ( 260hp to 290ish)?

I have now ran about a tank and half of E85. I have yet to see the BioPower gauge show full percentage yet (still one bar left).

Gas mileage has definitely gone down. My daily drives around the city has netted me about 13-15 MPG.

At times I feel a little more power, but not a lot. Probably will run another tank or two,and then switch back.

[rpiereck]

I know growing up in Brazil we had cars that were sold with either ethanol (100% ethanol, not this E85 shit, excuse my language but it's shit), or gasoline. That was before the days of flex fuel engines, it was either or and you chose at the dealer.

The same car with the same engine would have about 3-5% higher horsepower with the alcohol engine compared to the gas powered one, but the fuel mileage was almost 5% worse. That was offset by the fuel cost, as alcohol (ethanol) was 10-30% cheaper than gas.

Alcohol powered cars had more power but that came at a cost, and those cars had problems with fuel lines and carburetors corroding, and poor starting in cold weather, and I am talking about Brazilian cold weather, which is 45-50 degrees in the winter. All alcohol cars had a small gasoline tank in the engine compartment that was used for cold weather startup, and the car was then switched to ethanol once the engine was actually started. They ran for about 30 seconds on gas before switching to alcohol. The switch was not automatic in the beginning (later was automated), which led to unaware drivers driving off on gas when it shoudl have been on ethanol. Ethanol requires a higher compression ratio (my mom's ethanol FIAT had 13:1 compression), and running it on gas destroyed the engine quickly, although you couldn't go too far as there was 1 or 2 liters of gas at most.

E85 is a dumb choice in America, all it does is raise food prices, deplete water resources and create another kind of fuel when that's not the answer. While driving through the USA in my recent road trip I always searched around for a 100% gasoline gas station. When I wasn't able to find it, I used E85 and hated it: my 95 SAAB ran weaker and had worst gas mileage. I Brazil it worked because the country had a huge surplus of sugar cane that was easily converted into ethanol, the same is not true for the US.

I wish E85 would go away.

[Anders E.]

I have HIRSCHupgrade in mine 9-5 Aero Biopower -11 and it is 260hp both on E85 and 98octane.
Hirsch Performance - 260 HP Performance Upgrade 2.0T Turbo4 BioPower

[alexthegreat]

I got like 1 MPG avg. reduction with E-85 but performance and cost cannot beat.