Anyone else spin an engine bearing in their Saab 9-2x Aero?

[ScotHibb]

I guess that poses another question. I did find others with the same problem I had with the spun bearings as soon as they switched to Synth so it's not an isolated incident...or maybe it is? The one thing we all have in common is they were early production 2005 model year Aeros, and all 5 people also had AUTO Trans. I tried to track the year to Subaru productions, but found nothing substantial.

So...could the Boxer engines Saab put in their MY 2005 9-2x Aero Auto Trans be different in any way than later production years or MT cars??? Maybe where the oil pump is located versus a MT? Some slight difference in positioning under the hood or how the engine is positioned to attache to an automatic tranny? While all the mechanics at Saab said "that engine can't use synthetic oil" maybe they were generalizing because of a known flaw in the very limited 2004 automatics run for MR 2005? It's just way too much of a coincidence to think there's not an explanation linked to Synthetic Oil and THOSE SPECIFIC models!

One guy swore it was only Mobile-1 that has problems getting coverage on the flat, opposing cylinder Boxer engines...

A Subaru mechanic I spoke to told me that Subarus have a poor reputation when it comes to rod bearings. It is why the oil pumps have gotten larger and the crank shafts have been nitrated. And also said that running hot at high RPMs causes pressure problems, which is why Subaru oil filters are designed to bypass the filter at a specific pressure, allowing for a flux between hot and dry to over-saturated and "slippery", which could also cause a rod bearing to throw if you are running redline and let off on the gas then hit it again with an automatic (I didn't follow that part).

---------------

On the other thing...one screen shot had someone bringing up a person called AD in the forum thread, then your name came up. The next screen shot that was sent to me the main post was removed and the other one changed with you added. I was steering clear of the site and haven't been back since so I can't be sure what the heck happened.

[tunnanxwd]

The later and only other production year was 2006 but they made a grand total of 235 MT cars and a whopping 103 with automatics. They changed up to the 2.5 liter engine that was used in the normally aspirated series of 2005. As I said before that is why I targeted an 06 initially figuring that it would breathe easier. The gain was only a few horses, up to 230.

Seems to be the same motor with different displacement and if you look at the Subbie specs they did the same upgrade. So, why, why, why, you gotta say? For an itty bitty gain of like 3 or 4 horses change motors?

At the figures posted there are only the potential for finding like two automatics in NJ, so I gave up.

You went on Subbie forums and came up with nothing?

[Hirsch]

On the other thing...one screen shot had someone bringing up a person called AD in the forum thread, then your name came up. The next screen shot that was sent to me the main post was removed and the other one changed with you added. I was steering clear of the site and haven't been back since so I can't be sure what the heck happened.

AD is Adouglas or Andrew Douglas, tophers "real life" best friend and the reason that topher and I had a falling out. I've never been to 92x before this and I don't think I'll ever go back. Like I said, it's kind of weirding me out that a bunch of people I've NEVER had any online interaction with are talking about me on a forum I've never been a member of.

It's almost like I'm being stalked. If I gave a damn.

[ScotHibb]

The later and only other production year was 2006 but they made a grand total of 235 MT cars and a whopping 103 with automatics. They changed up to the 2.5 liter engine that was used in the normally aspirated series of 2005. As I said before that is why I targeted an 06 initially figuring that it would breathe easier. The gain was only a few horses, up to 230.

Seems to be the same motor with different displacement and if you look at the Subbie specs they did the same upgrade. So, why, why, why, you gotta say? For an itty bitty gain of like 3 or 4 horses change motors?

At the figures posted there are only the potential for finding like two automatics in NJ, so I gave up.

You went on Subbie forums and came up with nothing?

Initially I found 4 folks who spun bearing on Cyl-1 & 3 (after searching for over a year)!

Then while talking on the 9-2x site I met ONE guy who was on his first new short block replacement after switching to synth and spun a Cyl-1 bearing. He didn't consider that synth had anything to do with it, but checked his receipts from the guy he bought it from and they were all dealer oil changes with Dino....he didn't want to take the chance as he was only about 1,000 miles into his new SB-assembly, so he switched to Dino. For some reason, when the guy replied with info that backed my rant on Synth in 9-3x A's, certain people became enraged. I was starting to get more responses but then the sharks (I think they call themselves the Fight Club?) moved in because I was offending them with my talk on synth killing 9-2x turbos...it got VERY out of control, and anyone with supporting facts or similar experiences fled and didn't look back (I think once you're blackballed there you're through). I was going to post in the Subaru forums, but I was "dared to even try it"...knowing that meant I would be followed there for similar outcomes, I just figured I'd search elsewhere.

I wish things turned out differently...in hindsight I should have ignored baits, and once angered I should have cooled down rather than posting a blast-back reply or a trolling post...but since hindsight doesn't rewind time...it just sucks because i was just starting to get some cumulative information from other Saabaru owners with my model year with auto trans when all went to hell in a hand basket...

[ScotHibb]

You would think synthetic oil should be safe for all modern engines. All Saabs have synthetic oil from the factory (including the 9-4X). The requirement to break in a car with dino oil seems to be outdated as well.

That 9-2X seems to be a busy place for a car with such low sales volumes. And also explains why there aren't many 9-2X owners on the regular Saab forums.

[FONT=arial]I forgot to ask...what changed about not breaking a new engine in with Dino (I run Mobile-1 in all new cars, but only after breaking them in with Dino...except new 9-2x Aero's that is)? I would think that as synthetic oils become better/more "slippery" it would even be more relevant now, no? Using Synth in new engines during the break-in has always (I thought) been a no-no because it is so slippery that it dramatically limits the wearing of new mating parts. I've always been told that the initial wearing of parts is what makes for a true and proper engine break-in by the sealing of piston rings, mating of camshafts and lifters, allowing for pits/grooves to be formed so a small level of oil around at all times, etc, etc...what changed about this school of thought?

I read on a few sites (albeit sites I visit for racing bike info) that using synth for a break-in may not HURT but it's at least a waste of money and at worst doesn't allow the rings to wear down cross hatching in the cylinders. [/FONT]

[nordwulf]

There seem to be many more people with opinions than actually knowledge when it comes to oil. The same goes for breaking in the engine. As someone mentioned before, synthetic oils have greatly improved over the years.

Many cars these days come with Mobil 1 from the factory. I think companies like Porsche and Mercedes AMG know a thing or two about engines and oils. What does "slippery" actually mean? I am not an oil expert but it doesn't sound like a technical term.

Mobil 1 Synthetic Motor Oil is Factory Fill in 40 Plus Car Models AMG

[tunnanxwd]

To counter that however, I thought that the synthetic oil was quite the boom for the turbo. I had a turbo that I put lots of miles on in 1967 on down and the enemy of the turbo back then was "clogging of the veins" so you changed oil more frequently. Hey, I was 17 at the time.

Later, as the "information" was refined, it was said that the real enemy was "coking" from the heat of the turbo and that the "petrol" based stuff would cook onto the walls of the cooling passages. This was said to be the worst when you shut down and did not allow for a "1 minute cool off" when the turbo was not spinning much.

So, back to "turbo 101 revisited" it was said that the new synthetic oils did not coke (I guess the term is like the burn off of coal and the carbon chemistry), and were the greatest thing since sliced bread for the turbos. I was told by some, including Brian I believe, that you did not have to do the cool down thing any more.

Dang, I was going to bait you with ... "I don't get what you mean" ... "What do you mean by that" .... "I just don't understand" ... but if you didn't know I was yanking chain? Do those sound familiar?



Oh, the Aero down at Hamilton Mazda is a 2006 so it is one of the rare birds. The dropped the price down to $14k and change. The only other 06 Aero I knew of was a guy who was soooooo dumb he listed a CarFax link that showed the car was a total with a salvage title. I was on the phone to the nut job while he was telling me how reason for sale was his son wanted a Honda. Swore up and down there were no accidents and played dumb about the dealer decal, which was a very active wholesaler in Trenton. "I don't know him, why you say that?" Duh, dim bulb look at the pic you posted.

[tunnanxwd]

The best example used Buckminster Fuller and his balls to explain oil but this is a polite forum.

[ScotHibb]

There seem to be many more people with opinions than actually knowledge when it comes to oil. The same goes for breaking in the engine. As someone mentioned before, synthetic oils have greatly improved over the years.

Many cars these days come with Mobil 1 from the factory. I think companies like Porsche and Mercedes AMG know a thing or two about engines and oils. What does "slippery" actually mean? I am not an oil expert but it doesn't sound like a technical term.

Mobil 1 Synthetic Motor Oil is Factory Fill in 40 Plus Car Models AMG

Yes, but having a career in marketing (albeit pharmaceutical) makes me wonder/believe that cars shipped from the factory with Mobile-1 is a tactic/strategic alliance. Why else would Saab, for instance, put a permanent tag under the hood of their new 9-3's that names Mobile-1 as the recommended oil? Because Mobile-1 paid them to (or worked out a deal such as supply them with oil at no-cost). With synthetic oils having come such a long-way, I would think that a car company would recommend "Any synthetic oil with XYZ standards" rather than "Use only Mobile-1". It is also very telling that it shows up in PR searches and is on the Mobile-1 site (no way a car manufacturer recommends a specific brand of oil without incentives/compensation)...

I would also think that Benz AMG, Porsche, etc would polish-off their engines and do some sort of break-in during testing and prior to filling with Mobile-1 (that is total speculation on my part, but the first point isn't).

And the fact that synthetic oils have become better and better over the years better backs the rationale to break-in an engine with dino and then switch to synth...

I also ponder the "too slippery" term...and I directly point the finger to the entire mechanic/service staff at JMK Saab in Springfield, as they "taught me" the term "too slippery" when they replaced the last short block and told me over and over and over NOT to EVER use synth in my 9-2x Aero due to the way it built and how it's too "slippery and allows the bearing to over-spin"....too bad someone from JMK doesn't post here!

[ScotHibb]

To counter that however, I thought that the synthetic oil was quite the boom for the turbo. I had a turbo that I put lots of miles on in 1967 on down and the enemy of the turbo back then was "clogging of the veins" so you changed oil more frequently. Hey, I was 17 at the time.

Later, as the "information" was refined, it was said that the real enemy was "coking" from the heat of the turbo and that the "petrol" based stuff would cook onto the walls of the cooling passages. This was said to be the worst when you shut down and did not allow for a "1 minute cool off" when the turbo was not spinning much.

So, back to "turbo 101 revisited" it was said that the new synthetic oils did not coke (I guess the term is like the burn off of coal and the carbon chemistry), and were the greatest thing since sliced bread for the turbos. I was told by some, including Brian I believe, that you did not have to do the cool down thing any more.

Dang, I was going to bait you with ... "I don't get what you mean" ... "What do you mean by that" .... "I just don't understand" ... but if you didn't know I was yanking chain? Do those sound familiar?



Oh, the Aero down at Hamilton Mazda is a 2006 so it is one of the rare birds. The dropped the price down to $14k and change. The only other 06 Aero I knew of was a guy who was soooooo dumb he listed a CarFax link that showed the car was a total with a salvage title. I was on the phone to the nut job while he was telling me how reason for sale was his son wanted a Honda. Swore up and down there were no accidents and played dumb about the dealer decal, which was a very active wholesaler in Trenton. "I don't know him, why you say that?" Duh, dim bulb look at the pic you posted.

@Tunnanxwd - were you messin' with me in 'the other' forums? lol

WTF? He listed a CarFax link that showed a salvage title? Who would do that??? I'll bet there were no accidents...it was probably under water!

I was looking the other day for a nice discounted or barely used, low mileage Saab sedan (9-3 or 9-5) for a friend. Found a GREAT buy in NY...a 2011 Saab 9-5 Turbo4 Premium, 8,500 miles for freaking $23,500! I called the guy right away as it was just listed. He said 5 people had already called him and he had to sell it by the end of the week because his company was moving him to London (yeah...like that happens overnight without the ability to sell your new car?) and he was into the loan for $23,500 (nice down-payment dude). I asked for the VIN. Five tries later I am able to get the correct information from him to run a CarFax...SALVAGE DUE TO FLOOD! When I called him back he tried to hand up on me until I left him a message that I was still interested in making an offer (Pleassssse). He said that the car was perfectly fine and that he drove it through "clean water" (which would have been noted on the CarFax if it was indeed clear/clean water), and it stalled out because the "fan splashed water up on the engine" (is this guy an idiot? that wouldn't stall out a 9-5 unless you poured the water into the turbo intake), and a few people helped him push it out and park it to let it dry out. He also said he got out of the car before the water rose high enough to come inside and closed the door so not a drop of water came in. He said before they pushed it out he took POLAROID PICS of the car in the fresh water (holy shit this guy's good...he carries an old-school Polaroid camera around in case of such a situation so he later "can't email the pictures"). He said he called his insurance company and overnighted the photos to them and they said they didn't need to send an adjuster out, his photos were enough to total-loss the car and cut him a check. I asked why the check wasn't enough to cover the $23,500 left on the auto loan...he had to think about that one...don't think he remembered what story he told me about London and the loan...he gave a good answer though! He said that as soon as he took the photos they pushed the car out of the nice clean drinking water, let it sit for 15min, and it started right up and he drove it to a Saab dealership (kept forgetting to tell me which dealership), who have him a clean bill of health. I started asking why the first owner on the CarFax was from NJ, about 2.5 months ago (he lives in Upstate NY), and the second owner was in NY, and he is the third owner....this is when his story started to REALLY fall apart... He realized there was no way I was interested in it unless I could get it so cheap I could have even the worse flood damage repaired and engine replaced, so he said that he had 8 people wanting to make an offer, but if I wanted it he'd throw me a bone and give it to me for $18,000 as long as I arranged for a tow/transport. I said "It's a deal as long as you send me pics of (listed many parts of the car) with a copy of the title showing the VIN in each photo I'd wire the money within an hour of getting them. It took him 2 days, and when I rec'd the images you can tell he had zero photoshop abilities...and had down-sized them to make them "email friendly". He gave me his bank branch name and address and said to call them to transfer the money. I finally said "OK man, this is now become a huge waste of my time...I just wanted to see how far you'd take this bullshit...I'll give you $5,000 for it and I won't call your local police department..." CLICK...he hung up his phone and by the time I got home and went to check out his internet ad, he had killed it and all traces of it. Google didn't cache it, but I get a text from him this morning saying that he was mistaken and was going to "make things right" with the insurance company... and that's where we left off...more to come?