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  1. #41
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
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    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    There's a guy who goes by the screen name "-B-" who has been posing on numerous forums. Same thing happened to him, but his story sucked hardcore as he bought a 9-2x Aero and drove all day to have the bearing finally spin and shred the short block when he pulled into his driveway. He had a similar thing happen, Saab had been doing all the oil changes for free with Dino every 7500mile per manual, original owner put synth in it and put it up for sale about 6000miles later (I believe the guy could hear the not-so distinctive early signs of a bearing that's over-spun but not dislodged and flying around yet, so he sold it to the poor guy who, after a long drive testing out the turbo every now and again, didn't hear it until he was at home at 2am in his driveway idling...then what he heard next was the dreadful sound of a bag of marbles poured into the engine.

    I told him the 9-2x aero synth thing and he pushed it with the dealer, who finally said it was the fault of the oil pump and its inability to get very thin synth oil to the flat engine at high RPMs. Last I heard he had talked them into an engine replacement at a cost-share (like my first one)...

    Which brings up the question....could Saab have used a slightly different engine build with a different oil pump for a given model year?

    I can't stop my quest for an answer to this very vexing phenomenon until I can at least draw a valid conclusion...too many 9-3x aero owners I've found have spun a bearing when they started paying for oil changes and switched to synth...all within 4-10kmiles from the 1st time they switched to synth. When you look at how many people I've connected with that had this happen with the number of 9-2x aeros sold in the US, the percentage is high enough to warrant a full recall.

    MAYBE, please tell me if this could be a possibility, if one has a car shipped from the plant with Dino oil, and then uses Dino for every change for the first 50k miles, and THEN SWITCHES to Synth causes an engine that is broken-in and worn due to Dino every 7,500 miles to spin a bearing due to how it was driven, broken-in, and worn from Dino, and then a super thin, slick synthetic is added allows for the bearings to be too slick in their environment that thick, MUCH less slick Dion used to ride share, allows for said bearing to over-spin.

    I heard thousands of people over the past few years come against my assail on Synth in 9-2xaeros (only 9-2x aeros, no other car do i ever mention not to use synth in) come back with the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT which is "you couldn't be more wrong...I have used Synth in my 9-2x aero since the day I drove it off the lot...I never let Saab do the 'free' dino oil changes, I did all the changes myself or paid to have the oil upgraded to synth...and...saab wouldn't let me pay for the upgrade (a few said this) because they said it was recommended to use dino in the engine..."

    So everyone who has spun a bearing --- dino oil break-in and dino oil for first 50-58k miles + switch to Synth = shredded engine due to spun bearing within 500-10,000 miles of switch to synth (many heard knocking at 200-2000 miles post-switch but kept driving till engine shred).

    Everyone who told Saab to "go blow" and didn't allow factory suggested dino oil changes ---
    synth break-in and synth only run from day-1 at 5k change intervals = no bearing problems and very angry at anyone who says that Synth kills 9-2x aero engines (and blame all of us that have had to replace engines for letting our oil run out, or running without changing our oil for a million miles, or some other crazy accusations).


    My brain thinks too logically be able to go to sleep at night thinking that all of these happenings are mere coincidences.

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    Last edited by ScotHibb; 19 November 2011 at 20:08. Reason: formatting

  2. #42
    Saab Addict
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    10 Mar 2011
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    new jersey usa
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    Saab(s)
    08/280/xwd & 09/210/xwd
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    There is a second problem with the Boxster engine with the IMS, intermediate shaft bearings failing. Is that related?

    The first problem I mentioned was cylinder liner cracks.

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    Semper ubi sububi in caput tuum

  3. #43
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
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    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnanxwd View Post
    There is a second problem with the Boxster engine with the IMS, intermediate shaft bearings failing. Is that related?

    The first problem I mentioned was cylinder liner cracks.

    As far as I know the Subaru 4-cylinder Boxer does not have problems with cylinder liner cracks or the IMS bearing issues that the Porsche 6-cylinder Boxster did for the 986 Boxters from '97-04 and the 987 Boxters from '05-08. From what I remember, Porsche cut costs in those engines by cutting overall parts by a new injection-casting technique. Cool idea but it bit them in the arse on a number of levels. The IMS Bearing issues were due to leakage of oil into the shaft were a bearing that was designed for a "dry" milieu. The oil would leak past the bearing seal and the original "dry" lubricant would be messed up by engine oil and crap it had along with it, getting trapped and causing the bearing to wear until it went, tossing the timing chains like a salad and 'effing up the engine royally (a MUCH more expensive fix than replacing an entire Subaru Boxer engine).

    The cylinder cracks caused all kinds of issues in the aforementioned Porsche Boxsters, one was knows as the "Rich Pussy Wannabe" issue (guys with extra money to waste buying a Porsche for use as a commuter car, never driving it as it was meant to be driven) because it really was never seen on the same engines driven hard as hell on the road and on the track. The Rich Pussy Issue was the top of the casing "chunking" off due to normal vibration most gentle drivers driving to work and back experienced. Although this was most likely a misconception as the track-raced engines and those pounding the pavement with their Porsches changed their oil MUCH more often (especially the tr[FONT=arial]ack [/FONT]ones), so less miles and much fresher oil. It also allowed coolant to mix with oil...not cool.

    Another issue with those engines was porus issues from the casting technique. But maybe a more relevant surrogate look at Boxster issues would be the inadequate oil system. The air cooled earlier engines had dry sump systems designed to keep a bunch of oil in reserve for long high RPM driving. When the M96 engine came out Porsche ditched the dry sump design because, once again, it was a huge cost savings to not have a separate dry sump system. The M96/M97 engines had a "compromise system" (an oil sump built into the bottom of the engine...kind of a cheap way to make a hybrid wet/dry sump system). But because of the smaller volume of reserve oil, etc, the engines had oil starvation, especially during high RPM driving. THIS may be relevant...I'm not familiar enough with the 9-2x Aero Boxers oil pump systems or use of sump reserve systems.

    What's funny is that I've had people (even dealers) say that the 9-2x aero WAS a Porsche Boxster engine! Subaru based the opposing, flat cylinder engines on the same VW design, but totally different engines. BMW and Honda make, believe it or not, the most popular versions of the Boxer engine...BMW folks usually know it, but I never hear a Honda owner saying "I gots me a Porsche engine", and conversely I don't hear many Ferrari owners with the Boxer saying "I have a Porsche engine". But you certainly find a lot of Subaru and 9-2x owners making a distinct connection to the Porsche Boxster and the Subaru Boxer engines. And before you jump on it...the Honda reference was to bikes (Goldwings/Valkyries).

    Something tells me that I just spend too much time typing a reply to a post that, looking back, was most likely a bait/trolling post........lol.....

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  4. #44
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
    Posts
    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    As far as I know the Subaru 4-cylinder Boxer does not have problems with cylinder liner cracks or the IMS bearing issues that the Porsche 6-cylinder Boxster did for the 986 Boxters from '97-04 and the 987 Boxters from '05-08. From what I remember, Porsche cut costs in those engines by cutting overall parts by a new injection-casting technique. Cool idea but it bit them in the arse on a number of levels. The IMS Bearing issues were due to leakage of oil into the shaft were a bearing that was designed for a "dry" milieu. The oil would leak past the bearing seal and the original "dry" lubricant would be messed up by engine oil and crap it had along with it, getting trapped and causing the bearing to wear until it went, tossing the timing chains like a salad and 'effing up the engine royally (a MUCH more expensive fix than replacing an entire Subaru Boxer engine).

    The cylinder cracks caused all kinds of issues in the aforementioned Porsche Boxsters, one was knows as the "Rich Pussy Wannabe" issue (guys with extra money to waste buying a Porsche for use as a commuter car, never driving it as it was meant to be driven) because it really was never seen on the same engines driven hard as hell on the road and on the track. The Rich Pussy Issue was the top of the casing "chunking" off due to normal vibration most gentle drivers driving to work and back experienced. Although this was most likely a misconception as the track-raced engines and those pounding the pavement with their Porsches changed their oil MUCH more often (especially the tr[FONT=arial]ack [/FONT]ones), so less miles and much fresher oil. It also allowed coolant to mix with oil...not cool.

    Another issue with those engines was porus issues from the casting technique. But maybe a more relevant surrogate look at Boxster issues would be the inadequate oil system. The air cooled earlier engines had dry sump systems designed to keep a bunch of oil in reserve for long high RPM driving. When the M96 engine came out Porsche ditched the dry sump design because, once again, it was a huge cost savings to not have a separate dry sump system. The M96/M97 engines had a "compromise system" (an oil sump built into the bottom of the engine...kind of a cheap way to make a hybrid wet/dry sump system). But because of the smaller volume of reserve oil, etc, the engines had oil starvation, especially during high RPM driving. THIS may be relevant...I'm not familiar enough with the 9-2x Aero Boxers oil pump systems or use of sump reserve systems.

    What's funny is that I've had people (even dealers) say that the 9-2x aero WAS a Porsche Boxster engine! Subaru based the opposing, flat cylinder engines on the same VW design, but totally different engines. BMW and Honda make, believe it or not, the most popular versions of the Boxer engine...BMW folks usually know it, but I never hear a Honda owner saying "I gots me a Porsche engine", and conversely I don't hear many Ferrari owners with the Boxer saying "I have a Porsche engine". But you certainly find a lot of Subaru and 9-2x owners making a distinct connection to the Porsche Boxster and the Subaru Boxer engines. And before you jump on it...the Honda reference was to bikes (Goldwings/Valkyries).

    Something tells me that I just spend too much time typing a reply to a post that, looking back, was most likely a bait/trolling post........lol.....











    But seriously...this was a great connect to other versions of the Boxer engine...from BMW Bikes to Saab's DUMB ASS 9-2x, there are WAY too many coincidences that point directly to Saab's use of the Boxer and the use of Synth oil after said engine running Dino for 50k...

    Maybe we'll discuss the D-CHUNK on another forum, but it doesn't apply here....synth does............prove me wrong sucka!!! lol!

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