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  1. #21
    Jay
    Saab Addict Hirsch's Avatar
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    11 Mar 2011
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    Cincinnati, OH
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    989
    Saab(s)
    07 93 SC Aero 6spd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazam View Post
    Those be fighting words buddy!
    Calm down there Buffalo! Save the energy for next month when you're under 4 feet of snow!

    Thats not saying that there was anything wrong with the NG-93. Just saying that the 03+ 9-3SS was a better car, as is to be expected with car built on a brand new platform.

    I'm not sayin' nothing, I'm just sayin'...You know what I'm sayin'....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wulfers View Post
    Note to new members: choose your user name carefully because it will stick with you for the rest of your forum life.

  2. #22
    Mike
    Moderator Shazam's Avatar
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    30 Jul 2010
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    Rochester, New York, USA
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    1,986
    Saab(s)
    1973 96
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    100% true. While I love my car, there are many things they improved upon, but a few they didn't. The hatch is gone, I've got more room for people in the back seat, and mine still has an H engine. Not that the H engine is better, but it was a Saab engine which is kinda cool. But, the 9-3SS is a decent handling car with a body that won't flop and bend around...

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  3. #23
    Saab Addict
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    10 Mar 2011
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    new jersey usa
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    Saab(s)
    08/280/xwd & 09/210/xwd
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    Engine wise, the small "t" was 173 hp. That was phased out in the US in ... ??

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    Semper ubi sububi in caput tuum

  4. #24
    Andy Graham
    modérateur
    Join Date
    08 Aug 2010
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    236
    Saab(s)
    '88 vert, '88 Aero
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    @SaabBoon - don't tell me you're one of *those* forum readers...the ones that read "attitude" or "tonality" into plain-text-base posts. That's a pet peeve of mine. I even said in my 3rd reply that I wasn't typing with bad tonality...

    The problem with texting, Facebook, forums, etc, is that 95% of the time someone reads tonality into the way something is keystroked...
    Glad to hear there was no attitude in your posts but if you continue overusing caps and multiple exclamation/question marks for emphasis, then you will continue to be mistaken for someone with an aggressive/negative attitude. No point blaming everyone else for coming to the same conclusion.

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  5. #25
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
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    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    RE: feather ruffling -- yeah, non-personal communication can be misread. I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes...especially the toes of any fellow Saab lover!

    RE: sales guys misleading me: It's my own fault...I usually do VERY in-depth investigation before purchasing a car (especially because with Saabs I intend to keep them for ever or until my wife complains she can never park in the garage that fits 4 cars...lol). I plan on giving my daughters my 900 and 9000 because they are in tip-top condition and driven each month...even though my oldest daughter is only turning SIX in a few months! We'll see how long I can keep the wife at bay...we don't mind weathering her ride as it's a lease, so no need for garage use...sorry honey...
    Oops, my ADHD kicked in, started going off-topic again....
    The 9-2x Aero was a complete impulse-buy in 2005 as it was a stop-gap car for my wife who needed a car to replace her SUV, and with the trade-in and incentives I payed cash (stopped in to talk with Brain (a very trusted and new sales guy) about getting on the wait-list for a 9-7x V8, found out release was delayed again and so figured I'd test-drive the 9-2x Aero, wound it up to 120 and pulled out my debit card...
    Anyway...the 9-3 was completely an impulse buy (ADHD got me again), and I was tag-teamed by 2 sales guys I had known for a while but never bought from (the place was a ghost-town). They had such great, albeit wrong, knowledge of Saab, and were both (so they say) were long-term Saab owners as well. I usually don't even listen to a sales rep (except one like Brian who is honest to a fault that he will talk you out of a sale at his expense), but this time I was caught off-guard and had $16,000 in cash from Allstate/Travelers from the hurricane burning a hole in my pocket. One of the sales guys knew the folks at Princeton Saab that shut down a few years ago (at least their Saab department), BUT regardless of their misleading, I love the car and wouldn't hit "undo" if I could...but I AM pissed at myself for taking stats from a sales guy and not checking into it more closely (I went in to buy the new jet-black 9-5 and was talked out of it, almost said 'yes' to a 9-4 Combi, was talked out of it, and ended up taking a 3rd test drive (wife was getting very antsy with the 2 kids sitting with her at the dealership), and ended impulse-buying the 9-3.

    @Hirsh - I have always like the look of the new wagons. I also like taking a nicely tuned wagon out and spanking a Porsche! I usually hesitate in even calling them wagons. And you're right, it's not an opinion...GM ruined Saab. I remember the "read my lips" moment when they said they would allow Saab to run as they always had run and would change them...I laughed my arse off...they had plans on ruining Saab before they even thought about the acquisition!

    LOL...when my 5.75 year-old daughter says "no dad, I want THIS car when I can drive, not the 9000" I tell her "Honey, that model 9000 was capable of accelerating from 50 MPH 75 MPH faster than a Porsche Carrera-4 or a Ferrari Testarossa!" she says "What's a 'Tess-a-fross-a'". So much to teach her...my conservative wife gets mad when routinely go over 100 and my daughters both egg me on and the oldest one says "faster, faster" (I would only do that with the kids in the car when I know the car, stretch of road, and it's clear weather and little to no idiots on the road...now when it's just ME in the car, it's a different story....).

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  6. #26
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
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    30 Jul 2010
    Location
    USA - Netherlands
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    7,808
    Saab(s)
    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X
    Thumbs Up:   112
    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    And you're right, it's not an opinion...GM ruined Saab. I remember the "read my lips" moment when they said they would allow Saab to run as they always had run and would change them...I laughed my arse off...they had plans on ruining Saab before they even thought about the acquisition!
    Perhaps 5 years from now, we'll say the same thing about the Chinese owners. And we reminisce about the good old days when GM owned Saab. Either way, Saab needed the big pockets of a large company then and they need one desperately right now.

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  7. #27
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
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    08 Nov 2011
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    NJ, United States
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    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotHibb View Post
    I guess I was misled by 2 very trusted and long-term Saab sales managers when I went in to buy a new 2011 model. They sold me on the 9-3 Aero as a new generation of pure-Swedish engineering. They had a laundry list of the differences in the 2011 9-3 over the 2009-10 including new suspension, locking/limited-slip differential, "new turbo4 engine", and even an improved EPS system that takes into account everything from differences in tire pressures and brake wear when stabilizing the car. I even asked if i should pay $800 LESS for the 9-5 Sedan with the Turbo4, and they both told me, in so many words, "no, the 9-5 is a GM, Saab is turning it back in the next year or two". These 2 guys (one manager from JMK Saab the other from Princeton Saab where I bought 3 cars) are usually 'in the know' and many times tell me things they shouldn't (which is how i got Saab to replace 90% of the 3 blown engines on my Sabbaru due to their knowledge that synth-oil spins bearings at high RMPs).

    So is the 9-5 all GM, just assembled in Sweden? I mean just like the 9-2x aero, when I pulled up to a WRX Wagon they looked like the same car, the 9-5 next to a Opel Insignia does look like the same car...but is it actually the same frame or is it Saab built from the DESIGNS? From my investigations on the Saabaru, my 3 blown engines in 3 years was NOT happening to the MANY Subarus with "the same" boxer pan-4's in them, running Mobile-1 synth...it was an issue with GM taking the design from Subaru and "doing something wrong"... So what is it?

    Although, with regards to the differential and traction control...I have to say that 2 weeks ago when we got SLAMMED with that freak snowstorm, the sides of the roads were littered with AWD cars/SUVs and my new 9-3 drove completely different that any previous Saab I've owned...traction control hardly limited acceleration on slush/now-covered ice, it was beautiful.

    If you're telling me the same engine is in all the models that come with a Turbo-4, that means I paid $6,500 more for an emblem that says AERO and the only difference between the 9-3 Turbo4 Sedan and my 9-3 Aero XWD Sedan is: 1-sport seats with 8-way adjustable memory seats (rather than the bucket seats), 2-upgraded stereo system (6-disk changer, 11 brand speakers, upgraded amp, full bluetooth...well the 9-3 stock stero did kinda suck...), 3-instead of regular halogen headlights, directional adaptive high-intensity low-beam, bi-xenon lights and front fogs), 4-"new express" sunroof, 5-the locking/ultra-limited-slip differential, 6-17" alloy's, and a handful of other add-ons like rear-assist, "sport interior", etc, etc????

    IMHO GM almost destroyed Saab...ALMOST. Please don't disillusion me by telling me that out of the only 2 remaining "Sweden Saab" models, one is all GM!!! The body is one thing...but how do you call it a new generation due to the metal that wraps the heart and soul?

    To clarify a few typos/errors...

    1 - out of the 2 sales guys that mis-informed me, one was from JMK and one had moved to JMK when Princeton shut down its Saab division a few years prior.
    2 - I didn't BUT 3 Saabs from Princeton, I bought ONE...the other's were leases for my wife in-between purchases.
    3 - I found out that they were no longer managers since they moved to the Rt.22 Springfield dealership, and I really didn't trust them as much as I made it sound in my post...the only sales-guy I truly trust from either the JMK or the Princeton office is now down south central NJ as a Saab internet sales guy...Brian Schmittenger (spelling on last name?)...he still gives me advise on cars nowhere near his dealership.

    I DO hope we get SLAMMED with snow this winter...wife always has an SUV and I always (since the 90's) drive a Saab and ZERO accidents (off the track/with an automobile). In NJ you have to watch-out for all the people who THINK they can drive but can't...figured that out real fast when I moved back from Alaska and drove a VMAX (bike) for 6 months before bringing my Saab down...but when the roads "shut down" due to snow they are empty (not counting all the idiots in Hummers and trucks stuck balls-deep in snow, littering the roadside....

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  8. #28
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
    Posts
    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wulfers View Post
    Perhaps 5 years from now, we'll say the same thing about the Chinese owners. And we reminisce about the good old days when GM owned Saab. Either way, Saab needed the big pockets of a large company then and they need one desperately right now.
    True. I sometimes ponder whether or not it would be better for Saab to focus on their 2 best selling models and limit the options to make a good profit for a few years then try to dig out into full ownership...or shut down instead of taking on new owners (from my lips...). I've been a Saab-oholic for many decades and Saab closing their garage doors would be like a kick in the junk...but how far is too far? Guess we'll see what the new bosses do in the next few years...like I said, I LOVE my new 9-3...I wouldn't know what to do if they stopped making cars...have been behind the wheel of one since 2 years after getting my drivers license at the age of 16!

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  9. #29
    Scot
    EqualOpportunity Offender
    Join Date
    08 Nov 2011
    Location
    NJ, United States
    Posts
    59
    Saab(s)
    1989 900 SPG Turbo,1993 9000 Aero Turbo, 2000 9-5 Aero, 2005 9-2x Aero, 2011 9-3 Aero Sedan Turbo4
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    Now that I woke up to the reality that my original request, based on misinformation by sales guys, was not warranted...

    How long has the same engine (excluding improvements) been used in the 4-cilly's cross-model? I'm now doubting many things i may have taken for granted since GM came in...

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  10. #30
    Saab Addict
    Join Date
    10 Mar 2011
    Location
    new jersey usa
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    832
    Saab(s)
    08/280/xwd & 09/210/xwd
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    Believe it or not. Wiki had a pretty reasonable 9-3 section and I think it gave all of the engines and dates with hp numbers. Note that they use what seems to be real world numbers where the factory used "nominal" reporting; so 252 horses became 255 (something like that). Same for the 9-5, they even had the oil sludge problem covered.

    Looking at that it seems like the "I" engine started in 2002 with the MY 2003 cars. It shows as the 1.8 and the 2.0 with the same displacement. Does that make sense? Of course not; it's Saab, it is quirky.

    BTW, I think "quirky" is the catch all term that no author really knows the definition of. Back in the 60's it was unique and quirky in a rational way. Now kick me in the ass but the only thing "quirky" on my cars is that the AC light is off when the unit is on. That is stupid perhaps but quirky?

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    Semper ubi sububi in caput tuum

 

 

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