Head Gasket Questions

[jmcox44]

I posted over on SaabCentral and I am not getting the response traffic I was hoping for, so I am here and probably will stay here since I really like how things are done here.

For reference, my car is a 2001 9-5 Aero Auto with 135k miles.

Anyways, I'll start with a quick story about my issues I'm having.

[FONT=verdana]I was parked at DFW and get into my car (after it sat there for 5 days) and attempted to start it. It hesitated and gave up after being started for 2 seconds. I tried again and it did start, but it was very rough and stayed around 2000 rpms. I got out of the car and noticed a little white smoke coming out of the exhaust and could smell the fantastic sweetness of coolant burning. After about 30 seconds, everything died down and all was good. I drove the 110 miles down to Waco without problems, and performance was good, and I parked it at the house. Two days later I started it and it did not start the first time and was kind of a hard slam when attempted. I tried starting again and it repeated what it did in DFW. Quite a bit of white smoke, high rpms and unsteady idle for about 45 seconds and was good again. I stopped it and rolled it into the garage and had a look and saw no [/FONT][FONT=verdana]coolant in the oil and I have no oil in the coolant.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]I began removing things, and last night I pulled the intake tube, throttle body, and cobra pipe off. I had a look at each and noticed a few things. There is 0 movement in the turbo besides for the rotational movement it should have. The turbo is clean on the intake side and the fins look very good. I also noticed there was a little oil residue in the intake pipe going to the throttle body. It is not enough to drip out or anything, but my rag had some black residue when I wiped the inside. I figured this is because I have a lot of black residue buildup on the cobra pipe which I'm assuming comes from the banjo bolt. Am I thinking correctly on this? Also, the throttle body has some buildup and black residue. The good thing is that I removed these items and the O ring on the bottom of the throttle body is completely flat (I have a new one), and the O ring from the intake tube to the throttle body was broken and had over a half inch of no ring for air to leak through.

[/FONT][FONT=verdana]So now to some questions. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Before I order all of my parts this morning, does this sound like a head gasket issue? [/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Can the turbo ever be the cause of coolant smoke out of the exhaust?[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]I removed the chain tensioner and measured it to be half an inch or a little over 12mm, so should I roll in a new chain since I have it apart, or should I wait until the 15mm like the WIS says? (for reference, I drive my car around 3k miles a year, so it might take a while)[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Does anyone have a parts list for everything I should replace when replacing the head gasket?[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]When I replace the head gasket, I plan to send the head to a shop here that will check it and mill it if necessary. Do I need to remove the cam shafts and/or the lifters or anything?

Here are pictures for reference:
[/FONT]





Does this like like 12mm?



Sorry for the blurry picture, but the turbo is clean and no movement.




Notice Cylinder 1 and 4 spark plugs are kind of orange, and 2 and 3 are dark and dry looking.

[photousa]

If you're not getting the "mayo" when you check your oil and not getting oil in the coolant, (like I was), then I would say that your head bolts have probably stretched, but it's not bad enough to be a really bad head gasket leak yet. "Saabscott" is a moderator here and posted once that in the time has was a mechanic at a Saab specific shop, he did hundreds of "head bolt re-torques", but had never done one head gasket job. Meaning that with the age and mileage of your car, your head bolts have stretched or loosened up a bit and some coolant is seeping into a piston bore. If I were you, I would do the cheap thing first....buy a new set of head bolts and replace all of them, one at a time, torquing them down properly. It would be my bet that this will solve your leak issue. I replaced my head gasket last fall, but I was getting oil in my coolant...the PO had a coolant bypass valve failure and let the car overheat, warping the head. My leak created so much pressure in the coolant system that I would lose a lot of coolant, (blowing out through the expansion tank cap) just taking a drive to the suburbs. No need to bother with your timing chain. I went around with that issue as well. Until it makes obvious noise, it doesn't need to be changed. Sounds like your turbo is fine, but now you need to replace all of the gaskets used with all of the parts you removed. You might also want to think about using a flush, like the Amsoil flush, your head is pretty varnished up.

[jmcox44]

If you're not getting the "mayo" when you check your oil and not getting oil in the coolant, (like I was), then I would say that your head bolts have probably stretched, but it's not bad enough to be a really bad head gasket leak yet. "Saabscott" is a moderator here and posted once that in the time has was a mechanic at a Saab specific shop, he did hundreds of "head bolt re-torques", but had never done one head gasket job. Meaning that with the age and mileage of your car, your head bolts have stretched or loosened up a bit and some coolant is seeping into a piston bore. If I were you, I would do the cheap thing first....buy a new set of head bolts and replace all of them, one at a time, torquing them down properly. It would be my bet that this will solve your leak issue. I replaced my head gasket last fall, but I was getting oil in my coolant...the PO had a coolant bypass valve failure and let the car overheat, warping the head. My leak created so much pressure in the coolant system that I would lose a lot of coolant, (blowing out through the expansion tank cap) just taking a drive to the suburbs. No need to bother with your timing chain. I went around with that issue as well. Until it makes obvious noise, it doesn't need to be changed. Sounds like your turbo is fine, but now you need to replace all of the gaskets used with all of the parts you removed. You might also want to think about using a flush, like the Amsoil flush, your head is pretty varnished up.

Thank you photousa. That is exactly what I thought and what I wanted to hear. I looked over your posts about 100 times trying to decide what my issue was. I have a list of parts that I plan to order so I can get everything put back together.

Quick question. It does make sense that this is a head loosening issue since I have not had any coolant loss in a while and I drove 110 miles to DFW to have it sit there for a week and then this become an issue. Wouldn't a gasket issue be while driving or be more of a gradual thing?

EDIT: When you do the amsoil flush, do you dump it in the oil, drive for a while, and then do a typical oil change? I've considered switching over to the pennzoil hyper that you used and see if that helps also. I have been running Mobil 1 0W40, can I use the 5W40 Pennzoil without issue with the 100 degree weather we have here?

Here is my list that I'm ordering. I'm switching to the long serpentine belt due to the excessive vibration. Everything look kosher?

	16v All: Chain Tensioner Screw O-ring SKU: 8048670 In Stock [ remove ]	$5.68	$0.00	[ update ]	$5.68
	Chain Tensioner Seal SKU: 7508690 In Stock [ remove ]	$2.99	$0.00	[ update ]	$2.99
	Head Bolt SKU: 5955794 In Stock [ remove ]	$3.30	$0.00	[ update ]	$36.30
	Idler Pulley Kit SKU: 4752960 Usually ships in 1-2 days [ remove ]	$35.95	$0.00	[ update ]	$35.95
	Intake Hose O-Ring SKU: 4940698 Usually ships in 5-7 business days [ remove ]	$2.04	$0.00	[ update ]	$2.04
	Sealing Ring (16mm ID/20mm OD) SKU: 8124158 In Stock [ remove ]	$3.43	$0.00	[ update ]	$6.86
	Serpentine Belt SKU: 4899548 In Stock [ remove ]	$41.10	$0.00	[ update ]	$41.10
	Turbocharger O-Ring SKU: 90490362 In Stock [ remove ]	$4.29	$0.00	[ update ]	$4.29
	Upper Chain Guide SKU: 8859324 In Stock [ remove ]	$16.38	$0.00	[ update ]	$16.38
	Valve Cover Gasket SKU: 13083100 Usually ships in 1-2 days [ remove ]	$24.23	$0.00	[ update ]	$24.23

[photousa]

Thank you photousa. That is exactly what I thought and what I wanted to hear. I looked over your posts about 100 times trying to decide what my issue was. I have a list of parts that I plan to order so I can get everything put back together.

Quick question. It does make sense that this is a head loosening issue since I have not had any coolant loss in a while and I drove 110 miles to DFW to have it sit there for a week and then this become an issue. Wouldn't a gasket issue be while driving or be more of a gradual thing?


EDIT: When you do the amsoil flush, do you dump it in the oil, drive for a while, and then do a typical oil change? I've considered switching over to the pennzoil hyper that you used and see if that helps also. I have been running Mobil 1 0W40, can I use the 5W40 Pennzoil without issue with the 100 degree weather we have here?

Here is my list that I'm ordering. I'm switching to the long serpentine belt due to the excessive vibration. Everything look kosher?

	16v All: Chain Tensioner Screw O-ring SKU: 8048670 In Stock [ remove ]	$5.68	$0.00	[ update ]	$5.68
	Chain Tensioner Seal SKU: 7508690 In Stock [ remove ]	$2.99	$0.00	[ update ]	$2.99
	Head Bolt SKU: 5955794 In Stock [ remove ]	$3.30	$0.00	[ update ]	$36.30
	Idler Pulley Kit SKU: 4752960 Usually ships in 1-2 days [ remove ]	$35.95	$0.00	[ update ]	$35.95
	Intake Hose O-Ring SKU: 4940698 Usually ships in 5-7 business days [ remove ]	$2.04	$0.00	[ update ]	$2.04
	Sealing Ring (16mm ID/20mm OD) SKU: 8124158 In Stock [ remove ]	$3.43	$0.00	[ update ]	$6.86
	Serpentine Belt SKU: 4899548 In Stock [ remove ]	$41.10	$0.00	[ update ]	$41.10
	Turbocharger O-Ring SKU: 90490362 In Stock [ remove ]	$4.29	$0.00	[ update ]	$4.29
	Upper Chain Guide SKU: 8859324 In Stock [ remove ]	$16.38	$0.00	[ update ]	$16.38
	Valve Cover Gasket SKU: 13083100 Usually ships in 1-2 days [ remove ]	$24.23	$0.00	[ update ]	$24.23

[QUOTE=jmcox44;43643]Thank you photousa. That is exactly what I thought and what I wanted to hear. I looked over your posts about 100 times trying to decide what my issue was. I have a list of parts that I plan to order so I can get everything put back together.

Quick question. It does make sense that this is a head loosening issue since I have not had any coolant loss in a while and I drove 110 miles to DFW to have it sit there for a week and then this become an issue. Wouldn't a gasket issue be while driving or be more of a gradual thing?

Yes, the "gradual thing" is what you have. Your car sits for a week allowing the built up pressure to bleed coolant through some tiny gap into a piston bore.

EDIT: When you do the amsoil flush, do you dump it in the oil, drive for a while, and then do a typical oil change? I've considered switching over to the pennzoil hyper that you used and see if that helps also. I have been running Mobil 1 0W40, can I use the 5W40 Pennzoil without issue with the 100 degree weather we have here?

no, with the Amsoil flush, you dump it in to the oil prior to an oil change and let your car idle for something like 15 minutes, then dump it. Figure that some of the flush will be left in the system, you'll never get it all out. I switched over to the Pennzoil Ultra Full Synthetic 5W-30 Euro L product and got some really amazing results. I posted the results with photos on Saab Central. The "AutoRX" product is the one that you leave in and drive around, I don't have any experience with that product.

Here is my list that I'm ordering. I'm switching to the long serpentine belt due to the excessive vibration. Everything look kosher?

There is also a greenish O ring that goes at the base of the turbo bypass pipe, not sure if that's in your list or not. Check to see if the rubber stopper plugging the old distributor hole is leaking any oil, if it is, just replace it, I used a little loctite 515 when I reinstalled the "clamp" that holds it down, I think I used some 518 on the rubber plug itself as well. looks like you took off your throttle body but I don't see a throttle body gasket, (there are 2, base and top). You're going to want to fully clean the throttle body, also taking off the black cap and spraying electrical contact cleaner between the two rotating discs, also check for cracked wire insulation, be careful not to put too much pressure on the wires..when i changed my pulley's, I changed the Idler and the center at the same time, It would be a waste not to change them both while you're in there. you'll need pipe cleaner to clean out the tube that oils your timing chain, the pipe is on the valve cover. I used some Molykote 1000 on the underside of the head bolts according to the Saab WIS instructions. If you haven't updated to PVC #6, now would be a good time. I also changed out all of my aging and brittle vacuum pipe with silicone, (don't use silicone to replace the piping on the check valve leading from the valve cover to the throttle body, silicone gets weird when exposed to high heat and "sweats")..(research "dental floss" method of re-installing valve cover, trust me on this one).

Don't know how long you've owned the car, or the previous history, but here's what's going to fail next if it hasn't failed yet: at 100K miles, (fuel pump motor) and (coolant bypass valve), both are catastrophic failures, meaning if you're on the road when they fail, you won't be driving any further...

[jmcox44]

Sounds good with the Amsoil flush. I'll get some when I get everything back together. Should I run some of the Mobil 1 for a few miles and then idle and then dump and switch, or should I wait a while and get some new oil in there for a good few thousand miles?I actually bought an o ring for the bypass pipe a while back (although it is black) but it is the same thing and fits.The rubber stopper you are talking about, can you give me a link to it?I also purchased the bottom throttle body gasket a while ago so I already have that.Are you talking about the rotating disks for the throttle cable for me to spray?I changed all of the pulleys about 20k miles ago and that is when I put the short belt on. I did not bother with the center idler since I was not using it, but now I should only have to replace the center idler and then put in the long belt.I also replaced most of the vacuum lines 20k miles ago, but I have a good 10ft left and will replace any brittle ones.PVC #6 was done when I dropped the sump about 10k miles ago.I will get the pipe cleaner for the valve cover timing chain pipes.I replaced the coolant bypass valve about 5k miles ago when it started leaking a bit.I haven't replaced the fuel pump motor yet. What are the signs of it going? Will it just happen?Thanks again photousa.

[jmcox44]

Sorry for the messed up paragraph. Something is wrong with either the site or my computer and now I can't edit the post...

[photousa]

glad to help. Some people claim that you get a warning when the fuel pump motor is going to fail, but I don't think so, I didn't get any warnings. I was lucky, I went out to my parking spot behind our building to start my car on Thanksgiving morning for a 3 hour road trip and the car wouldn't start, it was a dead fuel pump at around 120K miles. I was lucky I wasn't two hours away from home in the middle of farm land...I would just use the Amsoil flush with the oil that's in the car now, i don't think there's any need in driving. on the other hand, If you enough synthetic oil on hand, even mixed types, you could dump the old oil, put in what you have with the Amsoil, then dump and put in something new, like the pennzoil, it could only help flush out crud.
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the best tutorial for changing the center pulley is here on this site.....