89 Turbo running poorly

[jamengual]

[FONT=verdana]Hi Guys.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]I have a 89 turbo that needs some love and I was preparing to start doing some work on it and I decided to started so that I can move out the garage so that I can clean up the space to start working on the top replacement and the interior but the car starts but is to weak to actually run.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]I swapped from the parts car :[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]ICM[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]AIC[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]AAM[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Battery[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Coil[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]spark plugs[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]and I got another 3 ECU two that were working and the original of the car.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]After changing those components the car still runs pretty rough and it doesn't accelerate at all like if there wasn't enough gas or pressure.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Then I tried to fill up the tank to see if it was the pre pump but nothing ( I have like 40 L of gas on it now).[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]The car starts after some cranking and then keeps running rough but when I try to accelerate the car you can feel that is trying but it does'n accelerate [/FONT]and it keep running after.[FONT=verdana].[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]I installed back the instrument panel following some advice from some people in saabcentral but still no go.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]There is some instances where you can feel that the car will come back to full power but it only last few second and then returns to bad(I haven't seen that for a while now).[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Following bentley's I tested :[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Voltage on the pump : reading 12.03v[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Voltage in the relay while cranking on 85 and 86 = 10.5-11.2v[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Jumper on fuse 30 = pump runs.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Jumper on relay conector 30-87b = pump runs[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]My pump is a roller type so I tested the feed pump and it works.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]Tested fuel delivery running the pump for 30 sec = 930 ml on container.[/FONT]


[FONT=verdana]So it looks like the pump gets the correct voltage, de ECU detects spark and grounds the fuel pump relay and all that is happening but still running terrible.
[/FONT][FONT=verdana]
Then I god a banjo bolt adapter for the fuel rail to test the fuel pressure to eliminate the pump and I got 40PSI on idle that is within normal values.

Today I got the third ECU from a running car and nothing and I changed the distributor cap and nothing.
[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana]I uploaded a video to youtube please watch it completely so you can see how the car is running : [/FONT]Saab 1989 Turbo convertible running problems - YouTube



I need help, this is killing me.

[FONT=verdana]Thanks.[/FONT]

[euromobile900]

Sounds really strange, like nothing I've ever heard before. But since you've done a lot of work with fuel, how about trying some spark things?

Are you using the right spark plugs? NGK BCP 7ES are what you want for a turbo. Anything else is probably not going to do you any favors, as proven by many many posters on Saabnet and elsewhere. I don't know why our cars are so picky, but that's what they like.

Then, if those are correct (check the gap and how worn the electrodes are, too!), look for cracks and problems with your sparkplug wires. You should replace them with Bougicords. They are much better than almost anything else.

Finally, check your timing. Could be that it's way off. The turbo cars have vacuum-advance distributors that are somewhat unreliable, and have to be manually adjusted!

[AdyT16s]

Doesn't sound like its running on all cylinders,i;d check the dizzy hasn't slipped.When running have you tryed pulling each plug lead off to see if it alters how it runs.

[jamengual]

Sounds really strange, like nothing I've ever heard before. But since you've done a lot of work with fuel, how about trying some spark things?

Are you using the right spark plugs? NGK BCP 7ES are what you want for a turbo. Anything else is probably not going to do you any favors, as proven by many many posters on Saabnet and elsewhere. I don't know why our cars are so picky, but that's what they like.

Then, if those are correct (check the gap and how worn the electrodes are, too!), look for cracks and problems with your sparkplug wires. You should replace them with Bougicords. They are much better than almost anything else.

Finally, check your timing. Could be that it's way off. The turbo cars have vacuum-advance distributors that are somewhat unreliable, and have to be manually adjusted!

Sparkplugs are like 5k old but I already tried to change it to another ones and same thing.

I I disconnect each inyector and/or each spark plug wire I can see the change in how the engine runs, so each injector is working and each spark plug too, now how good are they working is another thing.

Is just so weir, is like the car just don't want to run at higher RPMs at all.

Fuel pressure sims to be working because pressure is at 40psi.

I have two ICM and it doesn't change anything.

ahhh men this is so frustrating.

[jamengual]

Could it be a problem with the knock sensor?

[peva]

Could it be a problem with the knock sensor?

Knock sensor won't cause this. The APC reverts to base boost if there is a sensor fault, but apart from lack of full boost, the engine runs normally. I really do think this is an ignition problem. The timing may be out slightly but this doesn't really cause rough running, just poor power. You and other guys have covered most of the things I would recommend. I suggest you check the hall sensor in the dizzy and also the plug on the dizzy and the wires to it. It is possible to check a hall sensor with a DVM, but this can be inconclusive as the fault appears to be intermittent. Best bet, if you have it, is to try another dizzy, but do check the wires and plug very carefully.

PS I have to mention this, but are the plug leads on the correct way? Bentley gives the wrong information. Looking from the front of the car, starting from 12 o'clock on the dizzy cap and going anti-clockwise, the order is; 1-3-4-2.

[jamengual]

Knock sensor won't cause this. The APC reverts to base boost if there is a sensor fault, but apart from lack of full boost, the engine runs normally. I really do think this is an ignition problem. The timing may be out slightly but this doesn't really cause rough running, just poor power. You and other guys have covered most of the things I would recommend. I suggest you check the hall sensor in the dizzy and also the plug on the dizzy and the wires to it. It is possible to check a hall sensor with a DVM, but this can be inconclusive as the fault appears to be intermittent. Best bet, if you have it, is to try another dizzy, but do check the wires and plug very carefully.

PS I have to mention this, but are the plug leads on the correct way? Bentley gives the wrong information. Looking from the front of the car, starting from 12 o'clock on the dizzy cap and going anti-clockwise, the order is; 1-3-4-2.

Peva finally looks like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!!!

I checked the plugs leads and there were in the right position and then I started the car while checking the hall senson and suddenly the car start running worst while moving the hall sensor and then I start moving it in different directions and that car start running better ( far from normal but better) and the connector is brittle and is cracked.

What will be the best way to replace that?

could it be that the CPS is bad too and that is why it runs so bad ?

[peva]

You don't have a CPS. That is only on non-turbo, but it is essentially the same problem. Instead you have the hall sensor in the dizzy doing effectively the same job. This sounds like it may be your problem. It is either the hall sensor failing or the plug and wiring going to it. These are replaceable. This is a UK site with them. I am sure you will source one in the US. It will be one of these; SAAB 900 classic distributor HALL EFFECT SENSOR aero t16s carlsson convertible | eBay
SAAB 900 classic distributor HALL EFFECT SENSOR aero t16s carlsson convertible | eBay

If you are handy you may be able to repair the wiring by soldering with new wires and sleeving but don't do this if you are not confident with wiring. It can be fiddly.

[jamengual]

You don't have a CPS. That is only on non-turbo, but it is essentially the same problem. Instead you have the hall sensor in the dizzy doing effectively the same job. This sounds like it may be your problem. It is either the hall sensor failing or the plug and wiring going to it. These are replaceable. This is a UK site with them. I am sure you will source one in the US. It will be one of these; SAAB 900 classic distributor HALL EFFECT SENSOR aero t16s carlsson convertible | eBay
SAAB 900 classic distributor HALL EFFECT SENSOR aero t16s carlsson convertible | eBay

If you are handy you may be able to repair the wiring by soldering with new wires and sleeving but don't do this if you are not confident with wiring. It can be fiddly.

Thanks Peva, I was looking at the pictures and I think that I know which one I need.

Anyone knows where to get it in the Us ?

Thanks for all the help.

[peva]

Some bits here; http://www.thesaabsite.com/900old/c900ignition.htm