Looking to the future, expanding horizons?

[Brad Lauzze]

I tend to agree with the thoughts echoed by some of the others. I am here for Saab. This forum has become my go-to place for everything in recent months. I was a longtime member of both SaabLink and SaabCentral until I got fed up with the attitudes and drama by many of the members of both forums. SW is a clean/friendly forum, we all get along, help each other with technical stuff, provide positive feedback/constructive criticism and there are no pissing contests or unnecessary drama. While I do have interests in other makes (specifically Audi and Porsche) I do not believe it is necessary to open the flood gates as it were to all these other vehicle makes, there are plenty of other forums out there for such cars as it is and with many of those brands, you will undoubtedly attract members with poor attitudes who can't handle any feedback or criticism (which in my opinion is why people have migrated over here from the other aforementioned Saab forums. Having lurked on some of the German/Japanese car forums, this is a widespread issue that is not just isolated to one make. Basically what I am getting down to is, I think having all this other stuff to moderate/sift through will get stressful and unnecessary for anyone given the task and that friendly atmosphere I mentioned earlier will start to disappear. We have a forum that works well and we have good reputation... "If it aint broke, don't fix it."

[nordwulf]

I do not believe it is necessary to open the flood gates as it were to all these other vehicle makes, there are plenty of other forums out there for such cars as it is and with many of those brands, you will undoubtedly attract members with poor attitudes who can't handle any feedback or criticism (which in my opinion is why people have migrated over here from the other aforementioned Saab forums. Having lurked on some of the German/Japanese car forums, this is a widespread issue that is not just isolated to one make.

I think we all enjoy the mature level of conversation and general community spirit here. And the lack of drama and attitude.

Perhaps enthusiast of other brands also are tired of the attitude of some of the established forums. I heard bad things about most VW forums so I probably wouldn't even sign up there if I would own a VW. So where would I go then? If SaabWorld didn't exist, which Saab forum would you go to?

I think we shouldn't have any problem keeping this a clean/friendly forum with quality conversations and assistance. Moderators and members just have to enforce the few basic rules we already have in place. We don't want to attract anyone, just the people who can add value tot he site, community and do such in a mature way. The thing is, we almost never had to enforce any of the rules so far.

I would love to hear more about Audi and Porsche, especially from someone with a Saab background. However, I wouldn't follow you to an Audi or Porsche forum.

1) Be polite and respect your fellow SaabWorld members and visitors
There is no need for cursing, flaming, racism, personal attacks or other disrespectful behavior. Discussions about controversial topics (weapons, politics and so on) are allowed but please keep them informative and fair for everybody.

4) Posting etiquette
A well-written post is easy to understand and will get the attention of others. Thread titles should be a clear summary of the subject you are posting about. It is important to stay on or close to the topic of the thread you are posting in for all boards except the Clubhouse. Unrelated, off-topic posts may be deleted or moved to a new thread.

5) Keep the place nice
This forum is not the place for obscene, vulgar, pejorative, hateful, threatening or sexually-oriented content, swearing, or other immature behavior and bad content. SaabWorld is a family and work friendly place so be considerate to others. The site does not filter bad words so we rely on everybody to keep it clean. This includes actual words and intent (like substituting characters or abbreviations).

[nordwulf]

I understand Wulf but still respectively disagree with adding extra marques to this forum (what no Holden section? ). And yes I joined very soon after you developed this new forum as want to support you/the forum (as can't stand VS and their takeover) and I know I don't post much. In fact I don't post that much on the other main Saab forums anymore either, but do help out when I can.

Fixed the Holden section for ya.

You posted 17 times on SC and 8 times on SL in the last month. Your last Saab-related post here was March 4th. We have a few devoted SW fans here who don't want to have anything to do with SL/SC anymore. But... while many dislike the takeover by VS, they continue contributing on those forums. See, we just can't compete with that.

I am not critiquing you specifically, I just see that quite often. It's like saying McDonalds sells the worst junk food and still go there to eat.

[Brad Lauzze]

Well said Frank, and having looked at the layout changes that you have incorporated thus far, I'm willing to give it a chance. I would really appreciate if we stick with the SaabWorld.net name, the guys at the Tint Shop tinted over my SW sticker so its on there kinda permanently...

[ShaneB4Saab]

I was thinking about the changes or possible changes. To help eliminate confusion and to state we are a Saab-based forum, changing the logo to SAABWorld+.net or SAABWorldPlus.net Just an idea. Let it bounce around for awhile before deciding.

I see that monitoring usage is becoming a focal point. One aspect to usage is that people come to the forums for assistance. Meaning they are having a problem. If that's the case, then usage of the site is dependent on car troubles. This not unknown, but can be dismissed if focus on usage becomes paramount. I believe the TYPE of usage is paramount. If people visit to have a problem solved AND it is through this site, then you have a loyal visitor. If people visit to assist and the assistance is used and works, then you have a loyal visitor. If people visit to chat with friends, then you have a few loyal visitors. I'm sure I'm missing few other reasons why people visit, but I visit for the three reasons I gave.

I believe that this site has very good information and is not afraid to share info from other sites. SC, from my perspective, is all about SC. They have a large knowledge base and can use it. Here, the base is smaller but is friendlier. I know. It seems to contradict my earlier comments, but it's both. We must give pertinent and comprehensive info while being friendly. It's not a difficult concept on paper. In application, it can get muddled and ugly.

Frank, I like the site. You're good guy. We have a few "professionals" that are capable of assisting. (If I could get my Dad on here.....) Sometimes change can hurt. Sometimes not. I like to use the KISS acronym for situations like this.

Thank you! (steps down from soapbox)

[nordwulf]

I see that monitoring usage is becoming a focal point. One aspect to usage is that people come to the forums for assistance. Meaning they are having a problem. If that's the case, then usage of the site is dependent on car troubles. This not unknown, but can be dismissed if focus on usage becomes paramount. I believe the TYPE of usage is paramount. If people visit to have a problem solved AND it is through this site, then you have a loyal visitor. If people visit to assist and the assistance is used and works, then you have a loyal visitor. If people visit to chat with friends, then you have a few loyal visitors. I'm sure I'm missing few other reasons why people visit, but I visit for the three reasons I gave.

One reason to visit and not post is just trying to find out information. We have a lot of tutorials and other information nicely organized so many people don't even have to aks a question. Many of those tutorials and knowledgebase threads have a lot of views. Perhaps we should remove all that info so people have to participate to ask questions. Other people sign up, request help and we never see them again. Very understandable, I have done that on other forums as well. That doesn't make loyal members either.

I think a site becomes more interesting when it is about the passion and social aspect. Yes, technical assistance and solving problems is important but a site with multiple brands will never be able to compete with the individual forums. And many owners are not into the kind of stuff anyways. SaabsUnited is succesful reporting and talking about non-technical stuff. SC is successful because there are a lot of people talking about the technical side and solving problems. I always tried to make SW both with more sections where we can talk about technical stuff, news, the company and so on, maintain a blog with Saab topics from any member that wishes to participate and share their stories.

Some threads you often see is about "I am looking at a few different cars. Which one should I buy?" If you're choosing between a Saab, BMW and Mercedes and ask this question on a Saab site, guess what the advice is going to lean towards? And most likely, there will be negative comments about those other brands. Is there another forum where you can find owners of many brands and everyone can explain about the pros and cons of those different cars?

I believe that this site has very good information and is not afraid to share info from other sites. SC, from my perspective, is all about SC. They have a large knowledge base and can use it. Here, the base is smaller but is friendlier. I know. It seems to contradict my earlier comments, but it's both. We must give pertinent and comprehensive info while being friendly. It's not a difficult concept on paper. In application, it can get muddled and ugly.

I don't think SC has a very large organized knowledgebase. There are a lot of members but organization of content is terrible. I think it is because nobody is in charge and the admin has no interest in the forum content whatsoever. Moderators moderate if needed, they don't anything else for the site to make it better. And that's an observation from the last few years, not trying to discredit the many good people that are there. Things just never change on SC, it is the same questions and answers over and over again. How often can explain what spark plugs a certain engine needs? But that is just fine for VS. A continuous stream of questions and answers is traffic = people coming back multiple times = advertising revenue.

[ShaneB4Saab]

I don't think SC has a very large organized knowledgebase.

For clarification, I didn't say organized.

Ok. Let's step back a bit. I've read some of the posts and some people want to expand, others don't. Every argument states an opinion. The topic of change has brought many comments/opinions out of the nether. I'll state that I'm for maintaining a Saab-focused site. I'm not against adding other brands, but maintain focus on Saabs. This would allow those who own Saabs to have access to info w/o perusing too far beyond what they were expecting. I'll also state that info for other brands is only a click away. So, having the other brands here will alleviate a mouse click, right?

[Lex Andrews]

I know I may get lynched for this.... but here goes.
Again with the expanding thing, correct me if I'm wrong or miss the point.

1, As SAAB was a part of GM and a few models were either build side by side or "incorporated" parts with other, I use the incorporated loosely ie in regard of the Vauxhall Vectra. As a cross over how about adding models like:

Cadillac BLS (remodelled 9-3) so most of people's knowledge of the 9-3 could be used on the BLS.
Cadillac CRX or SRX (not sure which) Sister in part to the 9-4x.
Subaru Impreza 2001-2007 Sister in part to the 9-2x. (We don't have the 9-2x over here but I wouldn't mind getting a Impreza WRX wagon and a 9-3 together, as I like the look of the 9-2x over the Impreza).

2, As SAAB was and I supposed still is regarded as a Prestige brand, Makes that a reflect that aspect, If you didn't own a SAAB what in that sector you would of gone for whether as a main stream choice or a bit left field.

I may raise a valid point or bypass it completely.

[nordwulf]

Both of those ideas sounds good. Perhaps a site for all brands would make it too generic. I like the idea of just premium brands like Saab, the big German three, Infinity, Lexus and so on.

From what I have heard so far, we're probably just not ready for it, if ever. I re-arranged the forum home page again so all Saab content is listed at the top again. I still kept all the other brands in a sub forum so lets see if that will grow. If not, no harm done.

And I am happy to see all the feedback. Even though Saab (as we knew it) ceased to exist, the spirit of Saab and SaabWorld is still alive. When it is so quiet on the site at times, I just start to wonder if anyone still cares. And apparently, you do! Now go through the forums and use that passion to see if anyone needs help.

There is still an option of starting AutomobileWorld.org from scratch as a separate site. A site about passion for automobiles in general, travel with automobiles and non-technical info and discussions for each brand. All without commercial interest. For enthusiasts by enthusiasts. If anyone sees a future in that and wants to help to start something great, let me know.

[Shazam]

Oh no! No, no no no! I erased nearly your whole post Wulf! I meant to click "reply with quote"! I was a tad confused to as why there were not quote tags that I had to add! How do I undo it?