1999 Saab 9-3 SE Convert. vs 2001 BMW 330i

[DeadLegend]

**Hope this is the right place for a "vs." thread!**

Okay, so I'm buying my second used car soon (hopefully this weekend), and I've narrowed it down to 2 beautiful cars: a 1999 Saab 9-3 SE Convertible (150k miles, $3,100) & a 2001 BMW E46 330i (190k miles, $3,000 -- or 160k miles, $3,500). I'm a web designer so I guess I fit the Saab owner stereotype, and Saabs have always seemed like interesting cars; though I will say, I get sorta giddy whenever I think about the BMW - it's almost like a sexual feeling, which I know is weird, but that's how much I love the styling of the BMW.

Both seem to have tan leather interior, both make you think highly of the owner, and both are expensive to repair. But what are the biggest differences? And the little ones that are worth mentioning?

I make $10/hr at my 9-5 (lol, sorry) job, so reliability and repair costs are a factor. The Saab is being sold by a Saab-only dealership, while the BMW is being sold by a private party on Craigslist. The Saab has obviously been checked out and is said to be in "great" shape while the CL seller promises it runs great every day and is surprisingly smooth, needs nothing but a $20 piece of interior trim.

Personally, I hate lengthy cars since I'm still a new driver. My eyesight is depressingly bad (lazy eye triggered by things close by), so good visibility is essential. I don't want a boatload of power - I think there's something to be said about cars that you can comfortably drive hard. I don't like a touchy pedal (though I guess this could remedied in 1 of 2 ways). I'm easily frustrated by poor design - there's a reason I'm not going with a Ford. I live in Massachusetts so weather can be sucky. I'm also open to other BMW's/similar that can be found in the $2,500-3,500 price range.

Thanks guys! What would you go with?

UPDATE: I just saw the Saab - I have to say it was very underwhelming as a car. As a deal, though, it was pretty nice - 90-day bumper-to-bumper warranty and he'll replace worn out tires/brakes for up to 10,000 miles. I'm a skeptic and I realize he's running a business. Anyway unless someone can tell me that it's possible to buy a 13 year old BMW safely, the VS has changed: sucky Saab in good shape with a good dealership vs. a much nicer Acura RL/TL/CL from a private seller on Craigslist - which would you choose and why?

[nordwulf]

It sounds like this will be a car you'll drive all year round. And a convertible in winter just may not be the best choice. In addition, those roofs are complicated mechanisms so more things to go wrong. While Saab makes very good convertibles, I imagine it still may not be the best winter car.

reliability and repair costs are a factor.

Can you do maintenance and repairs yourself? This will greatly lower the cost of ownership. Saab parts are not really that expensive compared to other cars. I am not familiar with owning a BMW but I used to have a 1990 Mercedes W124 and parts prices were actually a bit lower compared to Saab.

$2,500 - $3,500 can be risky price range for a 13 - 15 year old car. If I were on a limited budget and needed to depend on a car as a daily driver, I would be looking at something Japanese.

[DeadLegend]

I'm with you there - my concern with the convertible is obviously the snow and the potential for leaks. I may sell it by the time winter comes around, but the fact that it's a convertible kinda forces me to do so. This will be my daily driver obviously, which for me means about 70 minutes of driving every day.

I regularly fix iPhones and repair broken laptops and such, so I'd like to think I could do a bit of car repair too, but being a new driver, I have zero experience so I can't say for sure.

I was looking at the Acura TL/RL/CL. My theory is that while the Acura is nice, something like the BMW (or even the Saab) would command proper maintenance from even the worst owners much longer than the Acura would. And anyway, they're all over 150k miles - things are gonna go wrong no matter what at this point, right? The one thing I actually really like about the Acura is that when I drove it, I didn't feel like it had more power than I could easily handle. I've heard people say that a powerful BMW is too much car for a new driver and I'm inclined to agree, but can't this be mitigated by adjusting the pedal for a less touchy drive?

I'll be reading reviews but I'm really interested in seeing you guys in the Saab world think of my little predicament...

UPDATE: I just saw the Saab - I have to say it was very underwhelming as a car. As a deal, though, it was pretty nice - 90-day bumper-to-bumper warranty and he'll replace worn out tires/brakes for up to 10,000 miles. I'm a skeptic and I realize he's running a business. Anyway unless someone can tell me that it's possible to buy a 13 year old BMW safely, the VS has changed: sucky Saab in good shape with a good dealership vs. a much nicer Acura RL/TL/CL from a private seller on Craigslist - which would you choose and why?

[Dave T]

$2,500 - $3,500 can be risky price range for a 13 - 15 year old car. If I were on a limited budget and needed to depend on a car as a daily driver, I would be looking at something Japanese.

My 1999 9-3 SE has 161,000 miles. I am a bit fearful for it being a daily driver so I have a 2013 model enemy brand (!) as a backup. However, so far, so good. No repairs needed for the Saab.

[Gen-X'er]

I have owned my Saab for about eight months. I have had to throw some regular maintenance at it to combat the previous owner's deferred maintenance but so far the most expensive repair has been a $120.00 battery. It's a great car. That being said, a BMW is a great car as well. I wouldn't be any more fearful of a 3 Series BMW than I would an older 9-3. Acura's are fine and as a general rule are more respected than either car in terms of maintenance, however, I think any older car you will buy is always going to be a risk in terms of maintenance. I had a 1990 Acura that had a distributor go bad on me in '99. About a year later I replaced it with a 1991 Miata that ran trouble free for me. The best car I have ever had in terms of maintenance was a 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ. The biggest repair I made to it in seven years of ownership and 80K in miles was to have the belts replaced and that was just done as preventative maintenance. Long story short, a lot of those maintenance reputations are built in the early life of a car and after a certain age, (Fiat X1-9s and Brit Roadsters excluded), they tend to level out. I always recommend going to www.carsurvey.org It's a great website for learning about potential cars. It has steered me away from some cars, (VW Jettas, later model Volvos) and steered me to some cars, (Isuzu Rodeo, Saab 9-5). I've looked at 3 series BMWs and they generally get a lot of love from their owners. As for dealership vs private owner. I have never gotten a bum deal buying from a private owner. I have had more problems than not buying from a dealer. If you go with the Saab, come on back and post some pics. If not, post some pics anyway.

[DeadLegend]

So guys... I'm about to become a Saab owner after all!!! <- I'm not a fan of triple !'s but this is an exception!!!

It's a 2001 Saab 9-5 2.3L Turbo with 101k miles. Sure it has a couple dings on the rear bumper, a little paint chipped off on the rear bumper too, the front logo has all its paint missing, the little sliding cover thing on the shifter is breaking into little pieces (one of which has fallen into the hole below...), the wood trim near the shifter isn't perfect, the ball joints apparently need to be greased up, and there's a crease-like dent at the front right corner of the car. BUT it's mechanically sound, EFFING FUN TO DRIVE (anyone know what the opposite of Viagra is called?), it has brand new front & rear brake pads & tires, it's beautiful, all the electronics seem to work nicely, the cluster of buttons isn't as overwhelming as I thought it would be, the seats are awesome, huge trunk with fold-down rear seats... and then all the neat little features! How cool is that spotlight?! And the double sun visors! Rear heated seats - are you friggin kidding me?!?!

I'm so excited... Anybody have any tips/tricks? Maybe a new owner's guide here on the forums? I'd love to fix up that sliding shifter cover thing. And what about replacing the worn out front logo? I wanna know about every inch of this thing Oh, and considering it's just crossed over 100k miles, what should have been replaced? And what's coming up on the repair schedule? Okay, last question - what's it like during a New England winter?

Thanks guys! I think I'll be popping in on here regularly...

[nordwulf]

Congrats! I think we can all remember how excited we were when we bought our first Saab.

For the slider shifter cover thing: http://saabworld.net/f29/selector-le...matic-wis-666/

Hood badge: http://saabworld.net/f29/front-hood-...b-9-5-a-27411/

If you don't know the service history, start with replacing:

oil and filter
engine air filter
cabin air filter
transmission fluid
fuel filter
spark plugs
coolant
serpentine/accessory belt

Find instruction links here: http://saabworld.net/f29/index-tutor...aab-9-5-a-261/

Is it a 2.3t or 2.3T engine? If it is the low-pressure turbo (2.3t), these may need replacement after 100K miles.

For any other specific questions about some repairs, it is best to start a new thread in the 9-5 workshop forum. Good luck!

[DeadLegend]

Congrats! I think we can all remember how excited we were when we bought our first Saab.

For the slider shifter cover thing: http://saabworld.net/f29/selector-le...matic-wis-666/

Hood badge: http://saabworld.net/f29/front-hood-...b-9-5-a-27411/

If you don't know the service history, start with replacing:

oil and filter
engine air filter
cabin air filter
transmission fluid
fuel filter
spark plugs
coolant
serpentine/accessory belt

Find instruction links here: http://saabworld.net/f29/index-tutor...aab-9-5-a-261/

Is it a 2.3t or 2.3T engine? If it is the low-pressure turbo (2.3t), these may need replacement after 100K miles.

For any other specific questions about some repairs, it is best to start a new thread in the 9-5 workshop forum. Good luck!

Yeah I just read about that whole 100k failure thing - it has been living on semi-synthetic oil it's whole life. The engine said "EcoPower" (or EcoSomethingelse?)... And it has the turbo pressure gauge - does that give more insight into engine maintenance concerns?

[tunnanxwd]

Tips or tricks? Wow, as long as it 9-3vert and someone already chimed in the the expense of parts, be aware you are buying into one of the most controversial and possibly least reliable of Saab cars. The early 9-5's have known oiling problems that lead to engine failure and the heat distribution system is another issue. We had one in the family that went wheels up within a year despite the clean bill of health from our mech. They are very comfortable and handle well and as such are very attractive but on a limited budget? My daughter only did well for that year because Daddy was writing the checks for things like the MAF, throttle body a few sensors and finally the big sludge failure freezing the engine. My son is currently shopping for one but as a Saab fanatic he is going into it with eyes wide open. You live in Mass and Beemers won't do as well as a Saab in snow. Loading the trunk with roofing shingles can help however.

Do you have records that it's been living on synthetic oil it's whole life? That sounds like another "old lady on Sunday" line. Heck many dealers back then did not even carry synthetic and I had to bring my own .... and if Saab service had been using synthetic this whole debacle would have never reared it's ugly head no would it? Many dealers held out because of the cost of synthetic.

They big problem with regular petrol based oil and turbos had nothing to do with the screens and overall engine failure at all. Turbos run extremely hot and with a regular oil oil it would leave a burnt residue (coke), in the cooling veins of the turbo and gradually choke it off causing turbo failure. The old school way was to let the engine idle for a minute or two before shut-down so the turbo cooled and residual oil in the veins didn't stay and cook.

It would be the rare owner who brought their own oil to the dealership spending $4.99 a quart when the change with regular oil was free.

[DeadLegend]

Tips or tricks? Wow, as long as it 9-3vert and someone already chimed in the the expense of parts, be aware you are buying into one of the most controversial and possibly least reliable of Saab cars. The early 9-5's have known oiling problems that lead to engine failure and the heat distribution system is another issue. We had one in the family that went wheels up within a year despite the clean bill of health from our mech. They are very comfortable and handle well and as such are very attractive but on a limited budget? My daughter only did well for that year because Daddy was writing the checks for things like the MAF, throttle body a few sensors and finally the big sludge failure freezing the engine. My son is currently shopping for one but as a Saab fanatic he is going into it with eyes wide open. You live in Mass and Beemers won't do as well as a Saab in snow. Loading the trunk with roofing shingles can help however.

Can't someone just lie to me and tell me what a great buy it'd be? Thanks for the reply - Yeah I remember my mother owned an 03 Taurus wagon and needed to put sandbags in the back so she wouldn't spin out on the highway (again). Are these issues that you'd expect to be detected ahead of time with a thorough pre-purchase inspection by a Saab specialist? Also, I'd bet both my legs that you know more than I do about this, but I was reading a 9-5 newbie guide here on this forum and it seemed like certain trims (like linear(?) vs. Aero) would have different engines, and the 100k sludge failure was limited to 1 or 2 of the engines, not all of them? So is there a way to tell if it has one of those engines that was susceptible to sludge failure? Like I said, it has the boost gauge, it's a 2.3 liter engine, and on the engine cover thing it has an EcoPower logo. Does that narrow it down?

Thanks!

Edit: Just wanted to say I'm in a 98 Jetta and I have no idea what they were thinking with this thing... The pedals are basically tucked behind the center console... Horrible.