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  1. #1
    Jeffrey
    Master SaabTech/Moderator Burnsside42's Avatar
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    Post Hard Starting Cold With Engine Misfire and Low Compression 2007-2008 9-3 B207

    Service and Warranty Reference Library


    Title:2013/08/03 Hard Starting Cold With Engine Misfire and Low Compression, Vehicle Starts and Runs Normally When Hot (2007-08 9-3 with B207 only)

    Date: 03/08/2013
    To: All Saab Service
    All Saab Parts
    From: SPNA
    ______________________________________________

    MODELS:
    2007-2008 Saab 9-3
    With B207R Only (this PI does not apply to the B284 V6 Aero)

    CONDITION/CONCERN:
    A Technician may comment of hard starting when cold. They may also complain of engine misfires with DTC's P0300, P0301, P0302, p0303 and/or p0304. The vehicle will start and run normally when hot.

    RECOMMENDATIONS/INSTRUCTIONS:
    This condition may be caused by worn intake valves and is typically found on high mileage vehicles with 75,000 or more miles. Due to the nature of this issue it can be more prominent in cold climates and could exhibit the condition at a lower mileage; inversely in warmer climates it may be at a higher mileage.
    TAC has found that intake valve wear of the valve seat face will cause significant compression loss in cold temperatures that will not be readily apparent when hot.
    To properly diagnose this condition perform a cold (after an overnight stay is best) compression and leak down test. As an example, an engine with a 150-175 psi hot cranking compression reading may only show 75 to 90 psi when cold.
    Once a Technician has determined he has the above described concern he must initiate a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) case by email or by phone. Email will be given first priority.
    TAC will provide the full information on the parts/repair procedure when the case is set. ______________________________________________

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  2. #2
    Jeffrey
    Master SaabTech/Moderator Burnsside42's Avatar
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    Post Hard Starting Cold W/Engine Misfire & Low Compression 9-3 B207 & 11' 9-5 A20NFT

    Service and Warranty Reference Library


    Title:RE-ISSUE: Hard Starting Cold With Engine Misfire and Low Compression, Vehicle Starts and Runs Normally When Hot 2007-11 9-3 B207 & 2011 9-5 A20NFT

    Date: 12/17/2013
    To: All Saab OSC's/WSP's
    From: SPNA Technical Assistance
    ______________________________________________

    This is a re-issue of a previously published document with updated information highlighted inRED.

    MODELS:
    2007-2008 Saab 9-3 B207R (This PI does not apply to the B284 engine)
    UPDATE: This condition could also occur on 2009-11 B207 or 2011 9-5 A20NFT
    CONDITION/CONCERN:
    A Technician may comment of hard or no starting when cold. They may also find engine misfires with DTC's P0300, P0301, P0302, p0303 or p0304. The vehicle will start and run normally when hot.
    RECOMMENDATIONS/INSTRUCTIONS:
    This condition may be caused by a worn intake valve and is typically found on vehicles with 50,000 or more miles. Due to the nature of this issue it can be more frequent in cold climates and could exhibit the condition at a lower mileage; inversely in warmer climates it may occur at a higher mileage.
    TAC has found intake valve wear of the valve seat face will cause significant compression loss in cold temperatures that will not be readily apparent when hot.
    To properly diagnose this condition perform a cold (after an overnight stay is best) compression and leak down test. As an example, an engine with a 150-175 psi hot cranking compression reading may only show 75 to 90 psi when cold.
    Once a Technician has determined he has the above described concern he must initiate a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) case by email at xxxx or by phone at xxxxx prompt #3. TAC will provide the full information on the parts/repair procedure when the case is set.
    Parts Required: Inlet valve 2007 to 2011, BioPower 55563529 (8 required) ______________________________________________


    Contact: SPNA Technical Assistance

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    Last edited by nordwulf; 07 January 2014 at 22:08. Reason: merged with original document thread
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  3. #3
    Saab Enthusiast AVguy's Avatar
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    Burnsside42, I understand that you are a Saab tech. How prevalent do you think this issue is on the 207R engines from 2007 on? I also see that this update shows to use valve part number 55563529, is this to be used on all engines affected by this issue even if not a BioPower spec engine? Would be good to get this info out across the multiple Saab forums out there so people are using the correct replacement parts even if having the work done outside warranty/ by an independent shop. Has there been any indication of GM or less likely SPNA doing this repair as a customer satisfaction type program even if out of warranty as it seems to happen at fairly low mileage 50-70K miles?

    Thanks for any info you can provide. I hope you have heard about or seen the thread about trying to track this issue.

    http://saabworld.net/f8/2007-cold-st...e-issue-29563/

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    Last edited by AVguy; 04 January 2014 at 06:01.

  4. #4
    Jeffrey
    Master SaabTech/Moderator Burnsside42's Avatar
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    Well I own a 2006 9-3 with the B207R and it's a victum of this. I contact SPNA and they aren't going to help me out as my car only has 58K and it started having issues around 52K. I've made it drivable without pulling the head, but come spring I am fixing it right

    I would assume that the part number issued in the statement above would apply to all engines with the problem. Likely the valve has a beter coating on them to resist carbon build up. You still should be and must run 92 or better Octaine.

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  5. #5
    Saab Addict
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    If carbon deposits are the issue, I was watching a segment of "Wheeler Dealers" where they introduced a new machine that hooks into the intake and via two chemical canisters mixes them throughout the combustion train, from injectors, pistons and valves and even the cat and exaust to rid it of carbon. It was on an older Jag XR and seemed to do a marvelous job.

    Burns, I know, "As Seen on TV" as you note that Ed the mech wears a T-shirt to that effect, but is there any truth to this.

    I believe they indicated the treatment would be about 50 pounds or probably close to $100 USD?

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  6. #6
    Saab Enthusiast AVguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnsside42 View Post
    Well I own a 2006 9-3 with the B207R and it's a victum of this. I contact SPNA and they aren't going to help me out as my car only has 58K and it started having issues around 52K.
    That is somewhat strange that they won't help you out because it has too few miles??? I have an 04 with 126K with no hint of the issue and an 08 with 56K and no symptoms yet either but obviously concerned with if it will occur at some point. It certainly does concern me that this issue seems to be expanding in scope and could possibly even affect the new 9-3's that are being built with the A20NFT engines (as I assume they were built in 2011 as part of the engines being used for the new 9-5's. Sigh...

    I get the octane thing but according to manual no engine damage is "supposed" to occur if using lower octane fuel, just performance and mileage are supposed to be affected.

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  7. #7

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    I have an 08 9-3 with 104k miles and all the classic signs of intake valve failure. I have taken it to a Saab specialist who has not heard of this failure before. I do have bad compression, but, he has indicated that the problem may be from all the apparent unburned fuel entering the combustion chamber and washing the oil from the piston rings and compromising their seal. He wants to replace the fuel injector rail ($450) to rule out one or more bad fuel injectors. Apparently he is also getting a fuel injector code as well as the "300" misfire code. Does this make sense? Could it be the compression test was not conducted properly?

    Thanks for any help.

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  8. #8
    Saab Enthusiast AVguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geeitup View Post
    I have an 08 9-3 with 104k miles and all the classic signs of intake valve failure. I have taken it to a Saab specialist who has not heard of this failure before. I do have bad compression, but, he has indicated that the problem may be from all the apparent unburned fuel entering the combustion chamber and washing the oil from the piston rings and compromising their seal. He wants to replace the fuel injector rail ($450) to rule out one or more bad fuel injectors. Apparently he is also getting a fuel injector code as well as the "300" misfire code. Does this make sense? Could it be the compression test was not conducted properly?

    Thanks for any help.
    Compression test needs to be done after engine has been sitting overnight (preferably 12+ hours) at a cold temperature (around or below 35F degrees). You should show him the tracking thread over at saabcentral. This is getting to be a fairly big issue as cars (particularly 07+) are getting into the affected mileage range.

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  9. #9
    Jeffrey
    Master SaabTech/Moderator Burnsside42's Avatar
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    I would just bite the bullet and have the valves replaced or cleaned - the head MUST come off. This is a KNOWN issue with these cars for a few years now. I've done 3 of them in the last year...

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnsside42 View Post
    I would just bite the bullet and have the valves replaced or cleaned - the head MUST come off. This is a KNOWN issue with these cars for a few years now. I've done 3 of them in the last year...
    I have an '08 with the valve failure. The shop could hear the air escaping during the comp test. The car has 104k on it. The shop has quoted $3500 but warned there might also be piston ring damage and a replacement engine would be $5500. Have you seen ring damage in the most severe case you have seen? I spoke to another shop and they said $1500 could do it if everything went smoothly. What's the range of damage/cost you have encountered?
    Thanks.

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