Welcome to the world of Saab ! Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Saab Fan
    Join Date
    11 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester Ma
    Posts
    7
    Saab(s)
    2003 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0

    Turbo/Boost advice Needed

    Got an 03 , 9-5.
    A buddy blew a piston out the front of the block on it.
    Pulled a running engine from the junk yard for $200. Stript it down to the block and pistons. All new gaskets
    and seals all the way around and use my head, intake ect ect. New timing chain, new balancer chain, new sprockets and guides.
    Got it back in and running, timed perfectly. The Turbo didn't seem to respond the way it used to, now as of yesterday when you got to crank it, it fires right up runs for a second or two and without even touching the gas pedal the boost gauge will suddenly spike to max boost and stall the engine, obviously because too much air is being forced down its throat. Ive gone through all the vacuum lines, all are in place, properly and in good condition. This started happening randomly, the car hasnt been driven since the engine swap, just left to idle for a while to burn out all the pre lubes, ect from the cylinders, intercooler ect from the build.
    Waste gate is functional. Bypass valve seems in good order
    completely open to any advice / suggestions
    and thnx in advance
    Name:  10494523_776038745780340_8047562278258241811_n.jpg
Views: 163
Size:  49.9 KBName:  10534067_776038875780327_6573116896950977123_n.jpg
Views: 162
Size:  50.9 KB

    0 Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Jul 2010
    Location
    USA - Netherlands
    Posts
    7,752
    Saab(s)
    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X
    Thumbs Up:   103
    Vacuum lines would be my first guess as well but that is about it. Any progress in diagnosing the problem?

    I thought I was a decent DIY mechanic but I can't even imagine taking on a project like replacing an entire engine. Great pictures, welcome to SaabWorld.

    0 Not allowed!

  3. #3

    Join Date
    26 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    4
    Saab(s)
    2003 Saab 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Just an update:

    We went back over all the vacuum lines and found a few things that needed to be fixed, mainly the line that attaches to the union by the cobra pipe. Most of the ones in the junkyard seemed to have had the hard plastic line snap in the exact same spot as mine.

    Now it starts up but leaves a little bit of coolant under the tail pipe and has some white smoke from the exhaust. It has a new head gasket. Compression read 150 across all four, no air bubbles in the coolant system. Leads me to believe it's the turbo and not the head gasket.

    After running for a few minutes, there is a very small amount of coolant/water getting into the oil. It doesn't mix like the traditional 'milkshake' oil from a blown head or head gasket. It is just a mild misting on the dipstick. It will also steam from the oil fill a small amount.

    Pulled the turbo. Found more shaft play than we'd have liked. It definitely wasn't like this when we first installed the turbo. That's where it's at now. Basically the idea is that the coolant must be leaking in due to that bad compressor side bearing in the turbo and running through the intake as well as exhaust. Gunna get a different turbo and hope for the best. If not, retorque the head bolts and maybe inspect for cracks or gasket failure/head warping.

    0 Not allowed!

  4. #4

    Join Date
    26 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    4
    Saab(s)
    2003 Saab 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Update:

    Pressure tested the water jacket in the turbo. It holds pressure just fine, no leaks into the exhaust side or the oil feed/return. This eliminates the turbo as the culprit; it's got to be the intercooler/exhaust or the head gasket/head itself. Still, the consistent compression rating across all four cylinders leads us to believe the head gasket is not the problem. Will update again.

    0 Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Marty Jackson
    Saab Addict Finding41's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 2013
    Location
    London Ont. Canada
    Posts
    640
    Saab(s)
    Sadly a Volvo XC90
    Thumbs Up:   1
    Shady you didn't spin the turbo while testing the pressure... Well not like it spins while running anyway.
    I'm betting it's the turbo.
    You can get a Chinese kit form Ebay for about $35 and rebuild it. (It took me 6+ hours to clean and rebuild mine!) Or Just get a new cartage from Ebay for around $200. (Much easier to just swap it out. That will be the way I go next time.)
    Keep us up to date with your findings.
    Welcome to the site too.

    0 Not allowed!
    finding41
    Marty Jackson
    www.northchannelcharters.com

  6. #6
    Richard Klein
    Saab Fan
    Join Date
    02 Mar 2014
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    36
    Saab(s)
    1999 SAAB 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Another thought: Are you sure there isn't some residual coolant in the intercooler or exhaust from a leak that had been fixed?

    0 Not allowed!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    26 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Posts
    4
    Saab(s)
    2003 Saab 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Well we had the turbo out when we did the pressure test for the water jacket. we plugged the outlet and pressurized the inlet, with no bleed through to the exhaust or turbine side of the turbo and no bleed through to the oil side. There was some play in the bearing but not enough to justify leakage even at speed. We have thought about residual in the intercooler and the exhaust but i has been ran long enough since the swap to have burned out everything by far, this is a continual deposit of water not only by vapor into the oil but enough that past idle into the combustion chamber that creates a water vapor blow out at the exhaust. When at idle we get a puddle on dry concrete after about 3 min. Were actually thinking at this point it could be a crack in the throttle body coolant veins.

    0 Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Marty Jackson
    Saab Addict Finding41's Avatar
    Join Date
    17 May 2013
    Location
    London Ont. Canada
    Posts
    640
    Saab(s)
    Sadly a Volvo XC90
    Thumbs Up:   1
    I thought you pressure tested the cooling system... A cracked intake would show up. A pressure drop would show anyway.
    I'd drop the oil and filter. (Keep it clean and let it sit so you can use it again.)
    Put a new filter and a sacrificial big jug of plane dino oil in and run it on the highway for a few days. Drop that oil and check for water.
    It is getting cold and damp out... So I would expect a tiny bit of moisture in any oil right now. Especially if it hasn't been up to highway temps for extended periods. City driving in the colder temps is great for condensation inside the motor.
    I'd put the oil you kept back in for the change from dino oil. (Watch on the bottom of the pan for water... Don't put it back in.)

    (I just dropped mine today. I will check the bottom of the pan tomorrow for moisture when I clean it out. I haven't driven the car for 2 1/2 weeks due to a bad alternator. I put the new one on today and changed the main oil seal and the timing chain tensioner seals. I won't be surprised if find a tiny amount of moisture in the oil. I have over 200000km on this car.)

    0 Not allowed!
    finding41
    Marty Jackson
    www.northchannelcharters.com

  9. #9
    Saab Fan
    Join Date
    11 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester Ma
    Posts
    7
    Saab(s)
    2003 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    Alright so heres the low down. We went through this thing with a fine tooth comb. Original suspicion of it burning water was residual left in the cat and exhaust not to mention we found out the cat was plugged. Ill get to that. Compression tested the cylinders, solid numbers all the way down, original suspicion of water mixing into the oil was condensation due to the amount of time weve spent on this project and leaving the engine open without ever doing an official flush. We pressure tested the coolant system with the plugs out and no bleeding was found though the piston heads were wet, turned out to be oil and gas also contributing to the smoke and condensation as the cat wasnt working correctly. So to the oil in and gas in the cylinders, after pulling the intake from the mass air to the cobra and the induction from the throttle body allowing natural asperation, and undoing all the vacuum lines involved and unhooked the exhaust below the manifold we basically had a good ole american chevy, simple input, simple out pu,t mild computer influence it fired up and ran mint, hooked one piece up at a time working our way from top to bottom till we hit the culprits. It was the cat being plugged and the mass air flow is shot. as to it burning oil, one of the vacuum lines was out of place and there was a faulty oneway valve in the block ventilation system allowing the spray to be drawn to the intake. As for the excess fuel in the cylinders the mass air being faulty was causing the ecu to force feed the injectors more fuel that couldnt be burned, ( Very Rich mixture ) We still have a traction control light and the exlimation point but we also broke that down to finding that we had broken the abs sensor in the wheel hub assembly during dropping the sub frame. So, all in all, at current shes in one piece, running great not burning oil or smoke, natural condensation out of the tail pipe for it being winter and a lil extra from all the build up. Were losing no coolant oil anything,. We cut the mass air flow sensor out by adding a K&N filter right before the cobra. Running great boosting mint but of course have the mass airflow code in OBD. Were going to tackle the abs and the other code, A low tension throttle body return spring code, lucky for us we have a whole extra throttle body and intake sitting around,. So after what turned into 4 months of a massive rebuild, it didnt come down to a turbo, head gasket or any of the above, a simple one way valve, mass air flow and a plugged cat that we got to blow out pretty decently. Few more days tinkering, go back over all the fluid lines as a precaution and she should be back to 100%
    Here was our temp mass air bypass, obviously not a drive worthy fix but it lead us to the problem.
    Name:  DSC02339.jpg
Views: 160
Size:  49.4 KB
    Once we get all the christmas light in the dash out and get her inspection sticker we throwing a party.
    Ive been building cars for 20 years, never had these issues, I love the way a saab drives but damn, cut back on the electronics, theyre a pain to trouble shoot, I'd do it all again as it was an amazing learning experience and forced me to turn to the basics and the process of elimination.
    Dont care how computer controlled things get, in the long run a combustion engines primal qualities are , fuel,.air & fire, if you can break it down to the basics and build it up in intervals, eventually you will find the betrayer...

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by DeviousByNature; 30 December 2014 at 05:44.

  10. #10
    Saab Fan
    Join Date
    11 Dec 2014
    Location
    Worcester Ma
    Posts
    7
    Saab(s)
    2003 9-5
    Thumbs Up:   0
    FYI as I noticed i didnt answer this, the boost problem was caused by 3 things, the cat being plugged- ( as air was being pushed into the throttle body, it couldn't escape as fast as it was being pushed. ) Solved... ( Misplaced vacuum line causing low vacuum on the waste gate ) Solved, ( and getting the engine to run right long enough to adjust the waste gate control bar to dump at the right time ) Doing Tomorrow. I find it amazing, someone blowing the engine lead to all these other problems. I suspected maybe the cat due to all the oil burnt B4 it slung the piston, but as the computers gets to catch up and we get the engine to run right the codes are comin in, but I dont care, It runs and drives great, and this point these little things are the sprinkles quickly tossed on a long built well earned ice cream sunday... lol.. Thanks to you all for your input and I hope this might help some one else. Honestly after 3-4 months of building this thing and going though all its issues, I dont think there isn't much I couldn't tell you how to fix or diagnose by sound and idle quality lol...I can even tell you how to test most of the electrical sensors and components using a $10 voltmeter with a ohm setting.

    0 Not allowed!
    Last edited by DeviousByNature; 30 December 2014 at 05:50.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 16:42.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5
Copyright © 2019 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.