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  1. #1
    Saab Fan
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    2007, 9-3, Aero

    2007 9-3 aero rough idle and stall

    I bought a used 2007 9-3 aero this summer and it's turned out to be something of a lemon...

    It's got a few bad symptoms, but the cluster of symptoms that I feel may be all related and most urgent, I will describe here:

    Current Symptoms, and past
    :
    -a really bad rough idle every few start ups. The rpms drop maybe to about 500 at times. Sometimes if I am stopped with my foot is on the break, it feels like it wants to budge forwards. It often follows with a CEL and code for turbo bypass. I feel like this is completely misleading though....turbo has had three new parts added to it and the problems have only gotten worse.
    -there is quick venting noise that is heard, towards the passenger side of engine bay, right after rough idle/rpm drop moment ends
    -car has just started stalling only recently after start up, if the rough idle is really bad (temperatures have risen about 15C also lately)
    -*I think this rough idle rarely happens on start up when the engine is actually "cold". Say I drive the car around during the day, leave it, then drive it again. The engine is probably warm to some extent. When I come back to start it, this is when it gets all weird and starts to idle really bad. Or if I just leave it out during a warm day and then start it up. On the other hand, if I start the car in the morning when it is around 0C outside, the engine idles well at around 1500RPM. I can feel very small blips, but nothing serious. Then after a minute or so, RPMs drop, it seems ok, and I drive off.
    -similar to the last point, I think warmer weather makes the car worse. In the summer when temperature was getting over 24C, I noticed there were more issues, sometimes thought it might fall apart on me.
    Recently the temperatures have spiked, and the frequency of these rough idles have increased, and the car starts stalling.
    -on a really hot july day, I had it parked in the sun all day. I started it up and smelled burnt rubber. No smoke was seen. The car drove for 500m with big throbs of struggle, then everything got better...
    -particularly on first start in the morning, when the engine is actually cold, the first couple minutes of accelerating produces high RPMs, but I'm getting noticeably less speed
    -feel hesitation/mild jerkiness at higher rpm just about when gear is going to change (40-70km/h is when I can notice at least). Or when I take my foot off gas, it feels like it abruptly reduces power
    -I also notice that when the idle is rough, the interior lights flicker..and flicker much worse as the rough idle gets worse
    -Also, not sure if related but the muffler often gives off ringing noise after start that goes away once driven a few min
    -also get once a month or so the traction control error, and leaves within a day
    -the navigation display sometimes decides to show a compass, and some days it doesnt :S. Generally that navigation system seems a little bit buggy when it is setting up when I start the car.
    -final note, I think if I drive the car hard one day, it may increase the likelihood of problems within next 2 days.


    I know some of this may be vague, or maybe non-relevant, but just trying to provide all the info I can.

    Dates of codes recorded, service, and parts
    July
    Replaced wastegate control kit (part - wastegate control valve)

    August
    ME9 PO 236 - charge air absolute pressure sensor
    ME9 PO 305 – cyl 5 misfire
    ME9 PO 300 – random misfire
    ME9 P2261 – turbobypass valve mechanical failure
    ME9 PO 234 – turbocharger overboost detected
    ESP CO131 08 – pressure sensor circuit, signal not plausible?

    Replaced sparkplugs, updated, and coil.
    Replaced charge air sensor

    September
    Replaced tank, section in fuel pump (part - fuel pump assembly from xwd), Code - POO98 00
    Replaced brake booster pipe (part - vacuum pipe/switch brake boost)

    October
    -turbo bypass code
    -and another part with regards to the turbo...a "flap" i think not sure really, don't have invoice

    November
    Only data is that the car has started to stall, and CEL has come on once - haven't checked it, nor do I have a reader.

    videos of muffler ringing

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...jl3YkhyMlFITXc
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...2pnSnVmRUJVeDQ


    video of it stalling

    -car is parked, nobody in it. When this happens, the car can get shaky and rpms drop
    -note the venting noise coming from passenger side of engine bay
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...kVSNGhmUGN4TEU


    Anybody's input for solving this problem is greatly appreciated as I'm getting really desperate at this point. I can provide more info if needed!
    Last edited by Canada_Saab; 06 November 2016 at 22:31.

  2. #2
    Saab Owner Digger's Avatar
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    2006 9-3 2.0t SportCombi
    You have what sounds like a pretty common drivability problem, some of it common only on cars with turbo's and this can be confusing. Can tell you that diagnosing drivability is a hands on thing and takes forever by text.

    Your engine video did nothing for me, the tail pipe tells me that part of your problem could be pieces of catalytic converter. Take a quick look to see if you have a new cat up front and if you do parts of the old honeycomb could be causing backpressure problems. If you still have the original cat put on a good thick glove and give it a couple of raps and listen for a rattle. Then move back to the muffler and do it again. A loose biscuit sounds like a loose biscuit, a busted biscuit sounds like a busted biscuit and a lot of cats are replaced for a loose heat shield, that's the only noise that's not going to cause you a problem and that could also be your tail pipe noise, can't tell from here.

    Now to the rest and it's all questions; Have you cleaned your throttle body? Have you check ground points? Have you done a good touch it with your hands, close visual inspection of your vacuum lines and electrical connections? Have you pulled relays and looked for dirty contacts? Also while pulling relays gently push on the block connectors with a thin blade screwdriver to make sure that are tight in the block. Every now and then you find one that moves. About half of everything that can cause what you're describing can be found with a good look see and fixed for a few dollars, or less.

    If you don't find and fix what bothers you after looking into the simple stuff, you're going to need real testing equipment and someone who knows how to use it.

  3. #3
    Saab Fan
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    2007, 9-3, Aero
    Thank you so much for your response. I haven't done any checks myself because I am not a "car person". If there is anything you think someone like me can do on their own with some guidance, please let me know and maybe I'll give it a shot when I have time. I don't know if my mechanic was checking for these things you mentioned, but I'll inquire about this next time.

    Just wondering, does that venting sound from the engine bay in my video mean anything to you? I know the visual is bad but its the audio that will have any information I think.

    Thanks again.

  4. #4
    Saab Owner Digger's Avatar
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    Can't get a specific location of sound from the video, could be sound of AC pressure, could be sound of fuel pressure releasing, could be venting purge valve or several other things, most of them normal. A microphone picks up all sounds and picking a specific location doesn't work on this end like it does when you have your head under the hood.

    A good mechanic will make a good visual inspection, but way to many rely entirely on their test equipment, especially when they don't know the vehicle upside down and sideways.

    When you don't know anything you can still bang on the exhaust pipe and listen for sounds that don't sound like they belong there, you can pull plugs apart and look for contacts that look dark and dirty, you can gently pull on wires to see if they come apart at the crimp connectors. You can do the same thing for vacuum hoses. Even when you don't know what you're looking for, you can still spot something that doesn't look like everything else. When the car intermittently flat out dies while driving and won't even crank to start, you can pop the top on the fuse block by the battery and use the handle of a screwdriver to gently tap the relays one at a time and turn the key after each try, if the car suddenly cranks and starts you've found a bad relay. With all the test equipment of a dealership no mechanic can find that on a running car while it's sitting in the shop.

    Lights flickering on rough idle could be normal alternator surging with engine rpm, or it could be telling you that you have a bad voltage regulator. No end to the type of strange problems you can have when you don't have good clean DC voltage to the computers. Some things need special equipment to check, spotting a crusty ground or loose battery connect only takes eyes and hands.

  5. #5
    Saab Owner Digger's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for your response. I haven't done any checks myself because I am not a "car person". If there is anything you think someone like me can do on their own with some guidance, please let me know and maybe I'll give it a shot when I have time.


    Don't know if this is going to come up as a double posting, first one went off to be checked and before posting and that happened to my key fob answer several days ago. System shows a green checkmark for posting and the posting doesn't appear.

  6. #6
    Saab Fan
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    Yes I did get it by the way, thanks! I was able to view it in mailbox.

  7. #7
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
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    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X
    Digger's post went into the moderation queue but should show up now.

  8. #8
    Saab Fan
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    This was digger's post:

    "Can't get a specific location of sound from the video, could be sound of AC pressure, could be sound of fuel pressure releasing, could be venting purge valve or several other things, most of them normal. A microphone picks up all sounds and picking a specific location doesn't work on this end like it does when you have your head under the hood.

    A good mechanic will make a good visual inspection, but way to many rely entirely on their test equipment, especially when they don't know the vehicle upside down and sideways.

    When you don't know anything you can still bang on the exhaust pipe and listen for sounds that don't sound like they belong there, you can pull plugs apart and look for contacts that look dark and dirty, you can gently pull on wires to see if they come apart at the crimp connectors. You can do the same thing for vacuum hoses. Even when you don't know what you're looking for, you can still spot something that doesn't look like everything else. When the car intermittently flat out dies while driving and won't even crank to start, you can pop the top on the fuse block by the battery and use the handle of a screwdriver to gently tap the relays one at a time and turn the key after each try, if the car suddenly cranks and starts you've found a bad relay. With all the test equipment of a dealership no mechanic can find that on a running car while it's sitting in the shop.

    Lights flickering on rough idle could be normal alternator surging with engine rpm, or it could be telling you that you have a bad voltage regulator. No end to the type of strange problems you can have when you don't have good clean DC voltage to the computers. Some things need special equipment to check, spotting a crusty ground or loose battery connect only takes eyes and hands."

  9. #9
    Saab Fan
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    Also its been a week and been trying to observe as much as I can. Only things that I can reiterate are that I think this rough idle gets bad much more when the car is driven longer i.e the engine actually warm. When I start the car and the engine is warm due to being already driven or being warm out, thats when these things get bad. The RPMs don't go to 1500, just start low right away and those rough patches are hard on it. Any final thoughts on this issue will be greatly appreciated.

    If there are any things a non-tech savy car owner can do in terms of checking things or cleaning things with a bit of guidance, also please feel free to share. Thanks.

  10. #10
    Saab Owner Digger's Avatar
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    Works better cold than warm, warmer it gets worse it gets and you have a check engine light and no code reader.

    What you can do without throwing money is unplug the air sensor between the air filter and the intake and see what happens. These things go bad with heat on all cars and if it starts running good you know you will need to replace. Don’t leave this unplugged to long as it will eventually cook your catalytic converter.

    A can of throttle body cleaner doesn’t cost much and can work wonders for rough idle, won’t fix a thermal bad part, will clean up sticky stuff.

    Sparks plugs can also act up when hot, you can always justify spending money on new plugs.

    Coil packs and crank position sensors will also get flaky when hot, when you get to this point you go to the biggest, or closest auto parts store and borrow, rent, or buy a scanner that also displays operational data. Their off the shelf scanner won’t have Saab specific software, so scan and read as a GM, not generic obd. Whatever you spend for the tool you need to find this, will be less than what you will pay for all the parts you didn’t need to fix this problem by guess and by gosh.

 

 

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