Cold Start issues with 2005 9-5

[Rajiv]

Hey guys,

every morning and in the evening I am getting following symptoms when I start the car for drive to work or drive to home.

1. Engine will fire up and idle at approx 1400rpm instead of usual idle speed of below 1000.
2. then it will slowly start dropping down to it's usual speed
3. if I put car in gear *before* it has dropped down to it's usual idle speed, it will stall
4. car will also vibrate ( almost feels like engine is trying to climb out of engine bay ) for approx 5 min while engine temp rises
5. during this, with car in Park, throttle position reads at between 23%-30%
6. once car is warmed up, if I arrive at a traffic light and apply brakes or put the car in park, throttle position reads under 20%

So far, I have changed spark plugs & I have cleaned throttle body wih carb cleaner. What else should I check / change? I do not get any misfire count. so I don't think this is DIC ( but I'm likely to be completly out to lunch on that ).

I have never seen any pending or recorded DTCs but then again I do not have tech2. so all readings were done with obdkey2.

I would welcome suggestions on diagostic strategies to follow, things to check etc. as I would really love to get this resolved before winter sets in

--Rajiv

[nordwulf]

It sounds like there aren't any OBD error codes or warning lights on the dash, right? When my DIC was failing, it gave a CEL and error code and the symptoms you described doesn't make it sound like DIC failure.

Are you in the US and have the 2.3T engine? How many miles are on your car?

With these kinds of problems, I would start with checking all vacuum hoses first to make sure nothing is loose or leaking. Could it be a sensor problem?

[Rajiv]

Thanks Wulf. I am in canada and have 2.3t engine, as opposed to 2.3T. there are just shade above 96k kms ( shade under 60k miles ) on the car currently. I know there are seriese of things that need to be done at 96k service interval and I have been doing them slowly over last couple of weekends. oil/filter change has been done, serpentine belt has been replaced, MAF sensor was cleaned with compressed air ( should I clean with something else? ) and seemed very clean. throttle body has been cleaned and did show some carbon build up on it. If it is likely to be vacuum leak, is there a way of confirming or should I just replace all hoses and go from there?

Car is not showing CEL and I can't find any codes with generic OBDII reader. I know that most generic OBDII readers do not show codes for anything other than what is defined as standard OBDII codes. however when I had been to Aktive motors to pickup parts for belt change, Christian was good enough to scan the car with tech2. At that time although no codes were present he did identify one hose where nipple connecting two sections of hose had broken. this has already been replaced and symptoms have still continued

[nordwulf]

This is advice from a Saab mechanic who was kind enough to send me an email with some ideas for this problem. Hope it helps.

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Well from the sounds of it this saab owner might be having some vacuum leaks. The 9-5's ive seen have had various location where the intake could be getting unmetered air.

A good place to start checking is the hoses going to the intake manifold. Remove the upper engine cover that covers the throttle body and visually inspect the hoses and vacuum lines for any cracks or deteriorating hoses. Also checking the hose going to the brake booster as i have seen this plastic hose leak and the only way you would tell is if you pull the pipe connecting to the check valves to make sure the connections are secure. Also the pcv pipe connecting to the pcv valve has a tendency of becoming loose.

There is also a hose right behind the throttle body that can be easily missed. Check this hose as well.

Give me an update if all these checks have been performed with no fix. I'd be glad to help out more.

[Rajiv]

Thank you very much. I will start checking these things out one by one and report back. Please convery my sincere thanks to the gentleman who has offered helpful suggestions.

[Rajiv]

I think I may have found source for my troubles. please see the pic



One of the nipples on this was cracked and broke apart as I was trying to fit new hose on it. I don't have EPC unfortunately. could someone who has access to EPC tell me what this part is? it is right next to throttle body ( right side of TB as you look at it from front of car ). I will troop over to local dealer first thing monday AM and get replacement.

--Rajiv

[nordwulf]

Please update your car and location in your profile so it is easier for others to assist.
http://saabworld.net/profile.php?do=editprofile

Here you go. It looks like you need #12

[Rajiv]

Thank you. I have updates my profile. parts should be here in 24hrs or so. dealer did not have them in stock but i am expecting them by tomorrow AM. #12 was $16 & #13 was $2. so not a big dent in wallet.

--Rajiv

[Rajiv]

Finished installing the fitting and I no longer have cold start issues. Thanks for all the help.

--Rajiv