Comments on: Waiting….. http://inside.saab.com/waiting/ Lorum Ipsum tagline Tue, 27 Dec 2011 02:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Steven Wade http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4926 Steven Wade Thu, 10 Nov 2011 02:54:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4926 Thanks gents, but I'm closing comments on this one.  Had enough of the political stuff. Thanks gents, but I’m closing comments on this one.  Had enough of the political stuff.

]]> By: Angelo Vecchio http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4925 Angelo Vecchio Thu, 10 Nov 2011 02:46:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4925 Politico?  You're joking, right? Politico?  You’re joking, right?

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4916 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:33:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4916 Without a little thing called the recession, GM might very well have pulled out of their problems with product alone.  GM has indeed been miserably run, but there have always been (and continue to be) some talented people there who break through the tedium and get some increasingly good stuff to market.   I totally don't get your US/Sweden argument.  Why should Sweden bail out Saab but the US shouldn't have bailed out its makers? I am most certainly not confusing TARP and the auto bailout.  This is seriously easy for you to look up.  And, if you read, well, everything from insiders involved in the bailout, your idea that this was to protect the UAW is laughable, especially since the UAW got smacked.  Start your research here:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16740.html My favorite quote: "In explaining his decision Friday, Bush said holding back "would leave the next president to confront the demise of a major American industry in his first days of office." Have fun. Without a little thing called the recession, GM might very well have pulled out of their problems with product alone.  GM has indeed been miserably run, but there have always been (and continue to be) some talented people there who break through the tedium and get some increasingly good stuff to market.  

I totally don’t get your US/Sweden argument.  Why should Sweden bail out Saab but the US shouldn’t have bailed out its makers?

I am most certainly not confusing TARP and the auto bailout.  This is seriously easy for you to look up.  And, if you read, well, everything from insiders involved in the bailout, your idea that this was to protect the UAW is laughable, especially since the UAW got smacked.  Start your research here:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16740.html

My favorite quote: “In explaining his decision Friday, Bush said holding back “would leave the next president to confront the demise of a major American industry in his first days of office.”

Have fun.

]]> By: Angelo Vecchio http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4909 Angelo Vecchio Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:47:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4909 If the product based turnaround were working, GM would have been able to dig themselves out of the hole, as Ford did.  Please don't try to argue that General Motors was being managed well at any time in the last 30 years.  Yes, they had some great products---but they were mismanaged.  If they had competent leadership, we wouldn't be here debating it.  Also, regarding Sweden/Saab and USA/GM----Sweden and the U.S.A. are completely different in terms of tax structures, labor laws, government, etc.:  Arguing that our Presidents shouldn't have bailed out GM doesn't automatically mean that Sweden's government shouldn't be involved with trying to help Saab.  Two different situations might mean two different approaches.      If the product based turnaround were working, GM would have been able to dig themselves out of the hole, as Ford did.  Please don’t try to argue that General Motors was being managed well at any time in the last 30 years.  Yes, they had some great products—but they were mismanaged.  If they had competent leadership, we wouldn’t be here debating it.  Also, regarding Sweden/Saab and USA/GM—-Sweden and the U.S.A. are completely different in terms of tax structures, labor laws, government, etc.:  Arguing that our Presidents shouldn’t have bailed out GM doesn’t automatically mean that Sweden’s government shouldn’t be involved with trying to help Saab.  Two different situations might mean two different approaches.     

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4907 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:47:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4907 This is the sticking point. GM at best will require some relatively long-term financial compensatory deal, if it is to allow Youngman to use its IP in Saabs manufactured in China. If this is not on, then ChinaSaab will have to make a completely fresh start, either using the Phoenix platform, unless GM have some kind of stake in this as well, or starting from scratch. This could be highly desirable, but would it be financially viable? This is the sticking point. GM at best will require some relatively long-term financial compensatory deal, if it is to allow Youngman to use its IP in Saabs manufactured in China. If this is not on, then ChinaSaab will have to make a completely fresh start, either using the Phoenix platform, unless GM have some kind of stake in this as well, or starting from scratch. This could be highly desirable, but would it be financially viable?

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4900 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 05:29:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4900 Ugh, the tea party taint and it's pathological disregard for reality has spread to what has traditionally been a politically neutral blog.  How sad.  There are lots of smart people at the negotiating table, from SAAB, GM, PangDa, etc. Let's assume positive intention and hope for a bright outcome.  I don't think there's much else SAAB fans can do right now.... Ugh, the tea party taint and it’s pathological disregard for reality has spread to what has traditionally been a politically neutral blog.  How sad.  There are lots of smart people at the negotiating table, from SAAB, GM, PangDa, etc. Let’s assume positive intention and hope for a bright outcome.  I don’t think there’s much else SAAB fans can do right now….

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4898 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 03:12:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4898 No, Angelo, you're not entirely correct.  GM was in the midst of a product based turnaround *before* they were "bailed out" and they deserve some credit.  Cadillac went from being a nursing home special to a valid upscale competitor with their own style and performance cred in less than a decade, Buick was brought back worldwide from the near-dead, Chevy is succeeding as a global value brand, and GMC, uh, well, GMC still makes no sense.  But most importantly, the products are no longer rolling tone-deaf, unreliable heaps whose existence embarrasses the US.  That's worth crediting... Getting out from under their huge legacy costs in the bankruptcy (their's and the UAW's faults), now their product based turnaround is yielding profits.  The taxpayer has been or is about to be paid back, hundreds of thousands of jobs were saved, and perhaps the US was prevented from being plunged into a new depression.  The auto bailout, by the way, was started by *GW Bush*, not Obama, who continued and expanded it.  Get your facts straight please.   Also, many Saab nuts have been begging Sweden to do a US style bailout of Saab which they've been refusing to do.  Many Swedes are embarrassed that their nation seems ready to watch their hard earned industrial capability go down the tubes, something that Korean, China, Germany, France and, yes, even our own US would not be ready to do.  If Saab fails, Angelo, don't never buy another GM car...  Never buy another SWEDISH car, for in my mind, if Sweden lets Saab fail, generationally, that's THEIR fault for all time... Actually, everything that Eggs says in his posts here are 100% correct in all regards, especially CvK looking like the world's wisest businessman.  Boy, he called this 100%. No, Angelo, you’re not entirely correct.  GM was in the midst of a product based turnaround *before* they were “bailed out” and they deserve some credit.  Cadillac went from being a nursing home special to a valid upscale competitor with their own style and performance cred in less than a decade, Buick was brought back worldwide from the near-dead, Chevy is succeeding as a global value brand, and GMC, uh, well, GMC still makes no sense.  But most importantly, the products are no longer rolling tone-deaf, unreliable heaps whose existence embarrasses the US.  That’s worth crediting…

Getting out from under their huge legacy costs in the bankruptcy (their’s and the UAW’s faults), now their product based turnaround is yielding profits.  The taxpayer has been or is about to be paid back, hundreds of thousands of jobs were saved, and perhaps the US was prevented from being plunged into a new depression.  The auto bailout, by the way, was started by *GW Bush*, not Obama, who continued and expanded it.  Get your facts straight please.  

Also, many Saab nuts have been begging Sweden to do a US style bailout of Saab which they’ve been refusing to do.  Many Swedes are embarrassed that their nation seems ready to watch their hard earned industrial capability go down the tubes, something that Korean, China, Germany, France and, yes, even our own US would not be ready to do.  If Saab fails, Angelo, don’t never buy another GM car…  Never buy another SWEDISH car, for in my mind, if Sweden lets Saab fail, generationally, that’s THEIR fault for all time…

Actually, everything that Eggs says in his posts here are 100% correct in all regards, especially CvK looking like the world’s wisest businessman.  Boy, he called this 100%.

]]> By: Angelo Vecchio http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4894 Angelo Vecchio Wed, 09 Nov 2011 02:23:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4894 Oh my God----you credit General Motors for going from bankruptcy protection to profits?  Hey Egg, you might as well credit ME and millions of other taxpayers who were fleeced by Obama to bail General Motors out and fork over a big share of it to the greedy UAW.  Frankly, I've owned countless GM products (I still own three of them, including an '04 Saab, a Chevy and a Buick).  If they succeed in killing Saab, I will never buy another GM product and I will work tirelessly, on the internet and otherwise---to convince THE WORLD not to buy GM and also convince everyone to speak out and persuade others to ignore GM products when they go to buy a car.  GM was propped up with millions upon millions of tax dollars.  There was no genius behind their turnaround----just a bully on Pennsylvania Avenue and a bunch of failed executives with their hands out.    Oh my God—-you credit General Motors for going from bankruptcy protection to profits?  Hey Egg, you might as well credit ME and millions of other taxpayers who were fleeced by Obama to bail General Motors out and fork over a big share of it to the greedy UAW.  Frankly, I’ve owned countless GM products (I still own three of them, including an ’04 Saab, a Chevy and a Buick).  If they succeed in killing Saab, I will never buy another GM product and I will work tirelessly, on the internet and otherwise—to convince THE WORLD not to buy GM and also convince everyone to speak out and persuade others to ignore GM products when they go to buy a car.  GM was propped up with millions upon millions of tax dollars.  There was no genius behind their turnaround—-just a bully on Pennsylvania Avenue and a bunch of failed executives with their hands out.   

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4893 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:07:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4893 Hey Eggs, there does not even need to be anything "hiding" in the financials. For sure the componentry and IP licenses from GM come at a great cost with not much room for profits unless sold at the infamously "high" list price Saab is known for. Likewise the 9-4X. There are also limitations on what Saab can do with said product. And, nobody of any note outside China has the money they would want to invest in such a proposition. Hey Eggs, there does not even need to be anything “hiding” in the financials. For sure the componentry and IP licenses from GM come at a great cost with not much room for profits unless sold at the infamously “high” list price Saab is known for. Likewise the 9-4X. There are also limitations on what Saab can do with said product. And, nobody of any note outside China has the money they would want to invest in such a proposition.

]]> By: 100%Saab http://inside.saab.com/waiting/#comment-4891 100%Saab Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:37:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3754#comment-4891 Also remember that the old guys running the GM that owned Saab all got fired. Their all gone. The new guys don't want to make the same mistakes. What Saab needs to do is sell cars, period. I'm still 100%Saab, but it makes it hard for me to talk to others about buying New Saabs if I'm not sure I can get my own car repaired. Four new 9-5s sit on a lot not more than 3 miles from me at this moment. Also remember that the old guys running the GM that owned Saab all got fired. Their all gone. The new guys don’t want to make the same mistakes. What Saab needs to do is sell cars, period. I’m still 100%Saab, but it makes it hard for me to talk to others about buying New Saabs if I’m not sure I can get my own car repaired. Four new 9-5s sit on a lot not more than 3 miles from me at this moment.

]]>