Comments on: What I learned about selling cars in the US, from the top-10 selling cars in the US http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/ Lorum Ipsum tagline Tue, 27 Dec 2011 02:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4899 Anonymous Wed, 09 Nov 2011 03:52:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4899 De-contented yes.   Many Toyotas come with drum brakes and plastic hubcaps on steel wheels.  If one wants carpet in the hatch area/trunk it's a option or accessory. And they sell like hotcakes.      The Ford Fusions are very well equiped though and people like them.   Lately I see a lot of Hydundai Sonotas on the road.   I've even seen several of the 2 door Veloster (and they just came out).  Their ads here in magazines and TV are quite effective; up to 40 MPG a neat looking car.   A tought market for sure here in the USA  but always room for better cars. De-contented yes.   Many Toyotas come with drum brakes and plastic hubcaps on steel wheels.  If one wants carpet in the hatch area/trunk it’s a option or accessory. And they sell like hotcakes.     
The Ford Fusions are very well equiped though and people like them.  

Lately I see a lot of Hydundai Sonotas on the road.   I’ve even seen several of the 2 door
Veloster (and they just came out).  Their ads here in magazines and TV are quite effective;
up to 40 MPG a neat looking car.  

A tought market for sure here in the USA  but always room for better cars.

]]> By: new rvs http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4872 new rvs Tue, 08 Nov 2011 10:00:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4872 guess you forgot the Toyota Hilux.He is sold worldwide over 13 million times.Maybe Nr.11 in the Ranking guess you forgot the Toyota Hilux.He is sold worldwide over 13 million times.Maybe Nr.11 in the Ranking

]]> By: eggsngrits http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4859 eggsngrits Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:49:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4859 With all due respect, let's step back for a minute and study this list from a different angle. 1.  Even though these vehicles are the top 10 vehicles in the United States, none of them registered more than about 1.5% of the overall market.  That is, <b>more than 90% of US buyers bought something other than these ten vehicles</b>. 2.  Lexus, Mercedes, Infiniti, Hyundai's Genesis, BMW and Jaguar are all enjoying brisk sales as well.  These cars are NOT de-contented. 3.  The top ten best-selling European cars don't look that different than the US list (minus the pickups, of course) VW Golf, VW Polo, Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus, Renault Clio, Opel/Vauxhall Astra, Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, VW Passat, Renault Megane, Peugot 207.  These are pretty pedestrian small cars. (Source: The Telegraph UK) 4.  Low-priced, average-content vehicles will always lead the pack.  Saab isn't there and shouldn't aspire to be. With all due respect, let’s step back for a minute and study this list from a different angle.

1.  Even though these vehicles are the top 10 vehicles in the United States, none of them registered more than about 1.5% of the overall market.  That is, more than 90% of US buyers bought something other than these ten vehicles.

2.  Lexus, Mercedes, Infiniti, Hyundai’s Genesis, BMW and Jaguar are all enjoying brisk sales as well.  These cars are NOT de-contented.

3.  The top ten best-selling European cars don’t look that different than the US list (minus the pickups, of course)
VW Golf, VW Polo, Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus, Renault Clio, Opel/Vauxhall Astra, Opel/Vauxhall Corsa, VW Passat, Renault Megane, Peugot 207.  These are pretty pedestrian small cars.
(Source: The Telegraph UK)

4.  Low-priced, average-content vehicles will always lead the pack.  Saab isn’t there and shouldn’t aspire to be.

]]> By: Samuel Lufi http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4845 Samuel Lufi Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:05:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4845 It seems to me that SAAB had the beautiful lead-in model during the C900 days:  a relatively inexpensive, safe, but interesting base model, a nicer but still practical S, then the turbo model for those more interested in the performance side, all surmounted by the SPG.   A base level 9-3 should be priced to compete with VW and Mazda 3 in the $23-$25K range then upsell, upsell, upsell. It seems to me that SAAB had the beautiful lead-in model during the C900 days:  a relatively inexpensive, safe, but interesting base model, a nicer but still practical S, then the turbo model for those more interested in the performance side, all surmounted by the SPG.  

A base level 9-3 should be priced to compete with VW and Mazda 3 in the $23-$25K range then upsell, upsell, upsell.

]]> By: Samuel Lufi http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4844 Samuel Lufi Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:00:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4844 And the new Genesis badge... And the new Genesis badge…

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4837 Anonymous Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:34:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4837 I think you hit all the makes right on the head. Slight disagreement here and there with your analysis, but pretty much dead-on! I think you hit all the makes right on the head. Slight disagreement here and there with your analysis, but pretty much dead-on!

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4836 Anonymous Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:32:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4836 Saabs aren't economy cars that owners aren't going to mind getting dinged up or put through hellion kids. Nor are they particularly workhorses, to be loaded up with stuff day-in and day-out. There're always exceptions, of course--but I'm talking about the general Saab customer. I'd say Saabs were more in between. My parents had a Saab each, raising my brother and I. They'd occasionally use them to carry home large/long purchases--but mostly they were comfortable modes of transportation in style. Just luxurious and sporty enough to be comfortable and fun (in my opinion). I wonder how true that is with the current Saab lineup. I don't see Saab doing what you mentioned VW doing, especially with the complaints about materials and quality. I don't see Saab selling anything cheap enough that will appeal to the economy-car "don't care about cars; they're just transportation" segment. Saabs can be very durable, but I don't see them replacing a truck to do the same amount of work. I think Saab has evolved with its market in that they still seem to be that in-between econo-car and pricey luxury car... but I think perhaps not different enough as far as looks/style goes to keep Saab fans coming back for more. The second-generation 9-3 took a long time to grow on me, so I wonder if that might be the point where people started to lose interest (as far as styling goes). I'm also curious whether a return to such radical styling (like everything up to the second-gen 9-3 time) would be enough to capture the attention and curiosity of that niche market they had not TOO long ago. Saabs aren’t economy cars that owners aren’t going to mind getting dinged up or put through hellion kids. Nor are they particularly workhorses, to be loaded up with stuff day-in and day-out. There’re always exceptions, of course–but I’m talking about the general Saab customer. I’d say Saabs were more in between. My parents had a Saab each, raising my brother and I. They’d occasionally use them to carry home large/long purchases–but mostly they were comfortable modes of transportation in style. Just luxurious and sporty enough to be comfortable and fun (in my opinion). I wonder how true that is with the current Saab lineup.

I don’t see Saab doing what you mentioned VW doing, especially with the complaints about materials and quality. I don’t see Saab selling anything cheap enough that will appeal to the economy-car “don’t care about cars; they’re just transportation” segment. Saabs can be very durable, but I don’t see them replacing a truck to do the same amount of work.

I think Saab has evolved with its market in that they still seem to be that in-between econo-car and pricey luxury car… but I think perhaps not different enough as far as looks/style goes to keep Saab fans coming back for more. The second-generation 9-3 took a long time to grow on me, so I wonder if that might be the point where people started to lose interest (as far as styling goes). I’m also curious whether a return to such radical styling (like everything up to the second-gen 9-3 time) would be enough to capture the attention and curiosity of that niche market they had not TOO long ago.

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4827 Anonymous Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:42:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4827 So they should be competing with companies with that have lower manufacturing costs, higher profit margins, and better reliability, in a more crowded market place? What Saab did in a market 50 years ago is not relevant today, at all.  They need to target niche lifestyles and grow from there.  So they should be competing with companies with that have lower manufacturing costs, higher profit margins, and better reliability, in a more crowded market place? What Saab did in a market 50 years ago is not relevant today, at all. 

They need to target niche lifestyles and grow from there. 

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4825 Anonymous Sun, 06 Nov 2011 18:57:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4825 This is an outstanding analysis of the US market.  Everything is take-it-to-the-bank correct, especially opinions of VW and the generational issues of auto purchases. I will add one thing and one thing only (the thing I always say in these threads): The list you gave Swade (and the analysis above) does NOT include luxury cars, and that market is apples to the Top 10's oranges.  I'm a professional in my 30's making good money, and I work in an environment where the men and women working are from their low 30's to upper 60's, all also making good money.  I've watched hundreds of these folks over the years buy cars, and I've advised many.  It comes down to this: ** Americans buy luxury cars based upon image and what they believe that vehicle speaks about them to their family and, very often, their friends. **  That's it, period.  No one talks about mileage.  No one talks about quality.  People DO talk about how they'll look in a particular brand.  They do talk about what their potential dates will think.  They talk about how they do and don't want to look.  People decide whether they want a sedan or SUV, and then choose the suit (re: brand) that fits them. There usually is very little comparison shopping, almost no comparison driving.     I'd love to see Bernard's opinion of the luxury market, but here is my pro/con list that I hear people balancing when deciding what to buy: BMW:       Pro: Oozes success, projects power, says you're a go getting, a master of the universe type...  Great new lease deals and excellent CPO deals      Con: Has developed an a**h*** image in the US that's starting to bother potential buyers, people starting to question the value proposition in pricing and packages, terrified to own past warranty. Audi:      Pro: It's become the successful "smart person's" choice, a way to whisper your success without screaming it, kind of because the default upscale version of what Honda used to be.  Considered a way to show you have good taste.  A lot of people troubled by the BMW a**h*** issue come here...      Con: Starting to be viewed as a bit of a snooty, superior choice, uppity in a negative way.  As prices leap up people are starting to wonder if they're worth the premium over VW.   MB:       Pro: Screams your wealth and success to everyone around you, associated with bling to a degree, AMG had done a lot to halo the entire brand in the US and the AMG image has surprising mainstream marketing penetration.  Lots of AMG appearance packages sold here...      Con: Associated with bling to a degree, some guys view it as a chick car (minus AMG), a bit too flashy for some, people terrified to own post-warranty. Volvo:       Pro: An earthy, progressive customer base.  Speaks to the same group as Audi more or less, but this group seemingly doesn't care quite as much about projecting their success to others (same crowd as Subaru, but more money).  Often, like Saab, families have been buying them for decades.  SUV's seen as sleek, practical, stylish choice...      Con: People wonder if it's too stealthy a choice, has no sex appeal.  I don't know anyone considering a sedan at all...  Might Volvo become an SUV company in the US like Ford was during the 90's?   Acura:        Pro: People buying want to show they have money but don't like cars that much.  They want an upscale, reliable appliance they never have to think again the minute after purchase.  Technophiles tend to be drawn to Acura's Tokyo nightclub interiors...       Con: No aspirational aspects at all.  No one desires one...  Has no soul, no reputation...  Too stealthy for many. Lexus:      Pro: Seen as the pinnicle of peace-and-quiet luxury by some.  Screams success.      Con: Seen as an "old man's" car right now by many, I've yet to meet one person under 55 considering one... Hyundai:       Pro: Seen as a smart, intelligent, value choice.  People have attitude of outsmarting other upscale buyers, thinking them idiots for paying 1/3rd more for less features and style than they have...  I've seen a lot of ex-Saab and Volvo 50+ buyers go here...      Con: It's, well, Hyundai...  Luxury models seen as being bought by retirees, and thus a danger of being seen as a value old man's car...  No one who cares about images buys one... Saab:      Pro: Buyers tend to loyal to the brand, tend to have latched on to one or two prototypical Saab features that keep them coming back...  Don't seem to care about what people think, "march to their own drummer" types...      Con: People don't know the brand at all.  They don't know the drama happening now, they don't think it's gone, they don't think ANYTHING.  Most people under 45 know Saab because they had a used one along the way climbing their ladder of success (maybe a used 900 or 9-3 in grad school) and haven't thought about it since... And that's the market.  What worries me about reading that Saab can't/won't do much advertising in the future in mainstream media is that Americans buy cars by image.  If you have no mainstream image, you won't sell cars... By the way, the #1 purchase in my workplace is a CPO BMW 3-series.  Even for high earning young professionals well into 6 figures, the sweet spot is still between $28-$38K in this market and everything that Bernard said above regarding starting prices is correct (which is why the 9-5 was DOA in the US initially advertised at 50K).  Do you know the 3 Series here is usually listed as starting at $35K?  How many roll off the lots within 10K of that?  None...  But that's how media outlets list starting price...  Ok, that's enough for now... :) This is an outstanding analysis of the US market.  Everything is take-it-to-the-bank correct, especially opinions of VW and the generational issues of auto purchases.

I will add one thing and one thing only (the thing I always say in these threads): The list you gave Swade (and the analysis above) does NOT include luxury cars, and that market is apples to the Top 10′s oranges.  I’m a professional in my 30′s making good money, and I work in an environment where the men and women working are from their low 30′s to upper 60′s, all also making good money.  I’ve watched hundreds of these folks over the years buy cars, and I’ve advised many.  It comes down to this:

** Americans buy luxury cars based upon image and what they believe that vehicle speaks about them to their family and, very often, their friends. ** 

That’s it, period.  No one talks about mileage.  No one talks about quality.  People DO talk about how they’ll look in a particular brand.  They do talk about what their potential dates will think.  They talk about how they do and don’t want to look.  People decide whether they want a sedan or SUV, and then choose the suit (re: brand) that fits them. There usually is very little comparison shopping, almost no comparison driving.    

I’d love to see Bernard’s opinion of the luxury market, but here is my pro/con list that I hear people balancing when deciding what to buy:

BMW: 
     Pro: Oozes success, projects power, says you’re a go getting, a master of the universe type…  Great new lease deals and excellent CPO deals
     Con: Has developed an a**h*** image in the US that’s starting to bother potential buyers, people starting to question the value proposition in pricing and packages, terrified to own past warranty.

Audi:
     Pro: It’s become the successful “smart person’s” choice, a way to whisper your success without screaming it, kind of because the default upscale version of what Honda used to be.  Considered a way to show you have good taste.  A lot of people troubled by the BMW a**h*** issue come here…
     Con: Starting to be viewed as a bit of a snooty, superior choice, uppity in a negative way.  As prices leap up people are starting to wonder if they’re worth the premium over VW.  

MB: 
     Pro: Screams your wealth and success to everyone around you, associated with bling to a degree, AMG had done a lot to halo the entire brand in the US and the AMG image has surprising mainstream marketing penetration.  Lots of AMG appearance packages sold here…
     Con: Associated with bling to a degree, some guys view it as a chick car (minus AMG), a bit too flashy for some, people terrified to own post-warranty.

Volvo: 
     Pro: An earthy, progressive customer base.  Speaks to the same group as Audi more or less, but this group seemingly doesn’t care quite as much about projecting their success to others (same crowd as Subaru, but more money).  Often, like Saab, families have been buying them for decades.  SUV’s seen as sleek, practical, stylish choice…
     Con: People wonder if it’s too stealthy a choice, has no sex appeal.  I don’t know anyone considering a sedan at all…  Might Volvo become an SUV company in the US like Ford was during the 90′s?  

Acura: 
      Pro: People buying want to show they have money but don’t like cars that much.  They want an upscale, reliable appliance they never have to think again the minute after purchase.  Technophiles tend to be drawn to Acura’s Tokyo nightclub interiors…
      Con: No aspirational aspects at all.  No one desires one…  Has no soul, no reputation…  Too stealthy for many.

Lexus:
     Pro: Seen as the pinnicle of peace-and-quiet luxury by some.  Screams success.
     Con: Seen as an “old man’s” car right now by many, I’ve yet to meet one person under 55 considering one…

Hyundai: 
     Pro: Seen as a smart, intelligent, value choice.  People have attitude of outsmarting other upscale buyers, thinking them idiots for paying 1/3rd more for less features and style than they have…  I’ve seen a lot of ex-Saab and Volvo 50+ buyers go here…
     Con: It’s, well, Hyundai…  Luxury models seen as being bought by retirees, and thus a danger of being seen as a value old man’s car…  No one who cares about images buys one…

Saab:
     Pro: Buyers tend to loyal to the brand, tend to have latched on to one or two prototypical Saab features that keep them coming back…  Don’t seem to care about what people think, “march to their own drummer” types…
     Con: People don’t know the brand at all.  They don’t know the drama happening now, they don’t think it’s gone, they don’t think ANYTHING.  Most people under 45 know Saab because they had a used one along the way climbing their ladder of success (maybe a used 900 or 9-3 in grad school) and haven’t thought about it since…

And that’s the market.  What worries me about reading that Saab can’t/won’t do much advertising in the future in mainstream media is that Americans buy cars by image.  If you have no mainstream image, you won’t sell cars…

By the way, the #1 purchase in my workplace is a CPO BMW 3-series.  Even for high earning young professionals well into 6 figures, the sweet spot is still between $28-$38K in this market and everything that Bernard said above regarding starting prices is correct (which is why the 9-5 was DOA in the US initially advertised at 50K).  Do you know the 3 Series here is usually listed as starting at $35K?  How many roll off the lots within 10K of that?  None…  But that’s how media outlets list starting price… 

Ok, that’s enough for now… :)

]]> By: Anonymous http://inside.saab.com/what-i-learned-about-selling-cars-in-the-us-from-the-top-10-selling-cars-in-the-us/#comment-4823 Anonymous Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:51:00 +0000 http://inside.saab.com/?p=3719#comment-4823 Re: Hyundai. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they'll pass both Honda and Toyota soon. It seems just about every other car on the road now is one of those toasters built by soulless robots. Throw in Kia as well (owned by Hyundai) and you have cars that appeal to a vast majority of the vehicle owners in the US — being cheap, relatively safe transportation appliances with just enough tacky styling to appeal. Saab needs to appeal to the  Re: Hyundai. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that they’ll pass both Honda and Toyota soon. It seems just about every other car on the road now is one of those toasters built by soulless robots. Throw in Kia as well (owned by Hyundai) and you have cars that appeal to a vast majority of the vehicle owners in the US — being cheap, relatively safe transportation appliances with just enough tacky styling to appeal.

Saab needs to appeal to the 

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