The oil thread

[GeoffR]

Do you drive a 2011 or later Saab?

If so are you using the correct oil? All GM cars produced Model Year 2011 or later should be using Dexos 2 oil. Failure to use the correct could affect warranty, if there were any Saabs still in warranty.

The number of Dexos 2 oils is limited so you may have to look around to find one. Google Dexos 2 and you should be able to find which oils are approved as Dexos 2.

[Dave T]

The Dexos standard is perplexing to me. In 2011, Saab changed oil specifications from GM LL-A-025 to Dexos 2. Diesels had a GM LL-B-025 specification. Supposedly, Dexos 2 was backwards compatible. I have doubts about that. The reason for doubt is that before oil meeting GM LL-A-025 were often also had approvals such as Mercedes Benz 229.3/229.5, Porsche A40, and BMW LL-01. For example, it was said that Saab 0W-30 oil was a repackaged Mobil 1 and later Saab Turbo 0W-40 oil was also Mobil 1. Whatever the case, Mobil 1 0W-40 did have the GM, Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche approvals as well as ACEA A3/B4. Now Mobil 1 FS 5W-30 oil is Dexos 2 approved but also a Ford WSS specification and ACEA A5/B5 but lack ACEA A3/B4, Mercedes Benz, or Porsche approvals. Note that ACEA A5/B5 is not necessarily better than A3/B4 and may be worse.

What is a Saab owner, particularly a 2003-2010 Saab 9-3 owner to do? I speculate that an oil like Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol Edge 0W-40, both available in the US, would be a good choice. In England, the choice of oil is slightly different. I would look for a ACEA A3/B4 oil and, if possible, an oil with Mercedes Benz 229.5 and Porsche A40 approval. BMW oil approvals are a mess and should be ignored. In the US, there's BMW Longlife-01 but there's conflicting reports of different (not better) BMW standards, such as BMW LL-17+FE, BMW LL-14, BMW LL-04, BMW LL-01FE, BMW LL-01, etc.

[GeoffR]

With a car earlier than 2010 any fully synthetic oil of the appropriate viscosity rating should be OK.

[GeoffR]

The Dexos standard is perplexing to me. In 2011, Saab changed oil specifications from GM LL-A-025 to Dexos 2. Diesels had a GM LL-B-025 specification. Supposedly, Dexos 2 was backwards compatible. I have doubts about that. The reason for doubt is that before oil meeting GM LL-A-025 were often also had approvals such as Mercedes Benz 229.3/229.5, Porsche A40, and BMW LL-01. For example, it was said that Saab 0W-30 oil was a repackaged Mobil 1 and later Saab Turbo 0W-40 oil was also Mobil 1. Whatever the case, Mobil 1 0W-40 did have the GM, Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche approvals as well as ACEA A3/B4. Now Mobil 1 FS 5W-30 oil is Dexos 2 approved but also a Ford WSS specification and ACEA A5/B5 but lack ACEA A3/B4, Mercedes Benz, or Porsche approvals. Note that ACEA A5/B5 is not necessarily better than A3/B4 and may be worse.

What is a Saab owner, particularly a 2003-2010 Saab 9-3 owner to do? I speculate that an oil like Mobil 1 0W-40 or Castrol Edge 0W-40, both available in the US, would be a good choice. In England, the choice of oil is slightly different. I would look for a ACEA A3/B4 oil and, if possible, an oil with Mercedes Benz 229.5 and Porsche A40 approval. BMW oil approvals are a mess and should be ignored. In the US, there's BMW Longlife-01 but there's conflicting reports of different (not better) BMW standards, such as BMW LL-17+FE, BMW LL-14, BMW LL-04, BMW LL-01FE, BMW LL-01, etc.

Oil specifications are a mess full stop.
Dexos 2 doesn't appear to equate to anything else so it is difficult to state that any other oil meets the specification, a great excuse for GM to invalidate the warranty on an engine.
Manufacturer oil approvals, Dexos 2 included, are generally pretty meaningless given that no car manufacturer actually produced their own oil, not that that stops them from selling their own brand oils. With a GM engine made after 2011 Dexos 2 is a manufacturer requirement so getting the right oil is easy. Earlier engines and those from other manufacturers it is a lottery. It would be far better if car engine manufacturers stopped issuing their own specification and stuck to some common oil specification from an international body rather than a regional one.
I got the following from the ACEA web site.
A/B: Gasoline and Diesel Engine Oils – “High SAPS”
A1/B1 Category is removed with these Oil Sequences.
A3/B3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines with extended drain intervals where specified by the Engine Manufacturer, and for severe operating conditions as
defined by the Engine Manufacturer.
A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3.
A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5
mPas. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C: Catalyst & GPF/DPF compatible Engine Oils for Gasoline & Diesel Engines – “Low SAPS”
Note: These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle’s Fuel Economy.
Warning: Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types – consult the vehicle-
OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.
C1 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Lowest SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern Aftertreatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.
C2 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern After treatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 mPas.
C3 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern After treatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.
C4 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Low SAPS-Level, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern After treatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable of using Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 3.5 mPas.
C5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil with Mid SAPS-Level, for further improved Fuel Economy, intended for use as catalyst compatible Oil at extended Drain Intervals in Vehicles with all Types of modern After treatment Systems and High Performance Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & DI Diesel Engines that are designed to be capable and OEM-approved for use of Low Viscosity Oils with a minimum HTHS Viscosity of 2.6 mPas.

There are 14 pages of the specification https://www.acea.be/news/article/ace...ly-2020-update if you really want to go into detail but the important point is that the oil ACEA approval appears to be against the type of engine for which the oil is suitable, so an A5/B5 oil may not be suitable where an A3/B4 oil was originally specified. Thus if GM haven't submitted Dexos 2 for use in an A3/B4 engine it can't be approved even if it actually meets the requirements.

As I see it there needs to be a recognised standard and oil producers should be required to submit their products for testing against the standard. In the EU it would then be possible to prevent non-compliant oils from being sold, probably different elsewhere. The current situation is such that an oil may meet a Mercedes Benz specification that equates to ACEA A3/B4 but doesn't have the ACEA approval because it wasn't tested, unless you keep records of the approvals on the oils you use getting a suitable oil becomes a lottery, fortunately most oils meet many different standards and, contrary to popular belief, it really isn't that critical, unless you have a warranty to maintain.

Sorry about the way the tables display.

[GeoffR]

I am looking for the right oil for my 4 cyl 2L 93 convertible.... the risky one! I am in UK and this thread seems to be mainly US and Canada! Any recommendations? I am happy to use additives too.

Suemax, you don't say what year your car was registered but, Saabits have oil at competitive prices for 5L, I am sure they will be able to provide the right oil at the right price. https://www.saabits.com/

[jonnyb433]

Hey all. Was lurking around the auto section at Walmart the other day and noticed something new, namely a 5W40 Euro spec from Mobil 1. Have always run Mobil 1 in my Saabs - its good oil and the rebates make it more than sensible from a cost/performance perspective - and have now standardized on the Mobil 1 0W40 FS Euro for the B235 engines in wife's 9-5 and my 9-3 Viggen. I know a few really like the 5W40 Castrol stuff, and now that Mobil 1 is offering similar I may switch to 5W40. I can see online that its available at Autozone too.
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...-1-fs-x2-5w-40

Has anyone run this new Mobil 1 FS X2 5W40 European yet? I can't seem to find the HTHS ratings from the Mobil 1 website, so if anyone has uncovered that pls share.

[GeoffR]

As this is sold as a European formulation it is entirely possible that we in Europe have been using it for some time buy don't have the US formulation to compare it against.

[jonnyb433]

Howdy, you may be interested in an oil filter cut-open comparison on youtube, here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cwGvy4S_B0 I sent a couple of new filters for my T7 cars (fits most older OG cars) to Pete aka Whip City Wrencher and he documented the inspection/review. One is a GM long life OEM filter, the other is the oversize Mahle OC479 filter that many seem to have landed on. Very interesting stuff if you get a chance to look. I like the Mahle...