Welcome to the world of Saab ! Register
Results 1 to 3 of 3
  1. #1
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Jul 2010
    Location
    USA - Netherlands
    Posts
    7,904
    Saab(s)
    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X

    2011 Saab 9-4X - Wulf - Michigan, USA

    Name:  6583d1322445172-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 10725
Size:  90.4 KB

    I wasn't planning on buying a Saab 9-4X. I made the mistake of visiting a few Saab dealers to check out the new 9-4X and see what all the hype was about. To make a long story short, I was very impressed and picked up my own 9-4X a few weeks later.

    I purchased this Saab 9-4X 3.0i Premium FWD on 13 September 2011 so that was about 2 1/2 months and 4,200 miles / 6.800 kilometers ago at the time of this writing. It is easy to be overwhelmed with a new vehicle so I decided to wait with writing a review until the honeymoon was over and I had more time to experience the 9-4X. This is going to be a multi-part review because there is a lot to talk about the 9-4X.

    Name:  6584d1322445691-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 7399
Size:  94.8 KB

    Exterior

    To sum it up in just a few words: timeless, elegant, modern and very Saab. Many exterior designs these designs are a bit over-styled in my opinion and function often follows form. This design will age very well and should still look good in 10 years from now. I don't particularly care for the lower grey plastic treatment and the front needs some more design cues towards the bottom.

    I did not like the blue-tinted headlamp styling at first when I saw it in pictures but it is one of those unique design treatments that look better in person. This blue design detail continues in the side-markers and into the tail lights. I think it looks best on lighter exterior colors.

    Name:  6582d1322444788-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 1476
Size:  29.4 KB

    The blacked-out A-pillars look fantastic and give the 9-4X another unique design cue. The entire body has a strong muscular appearance and all proportions are just right. The visible C-pillar is positioned almost at the rear so you don't have that familiar family hauler wagon or large SUV look. There are several metal accents around the windows (the hockey stick profile), on the door handles and other places. These are difficult to see on light-colored 9-4X but still look good on the dark colors as well.

    The roof rails are nicely finished. There aren't any accessories available for the 9-4X from Saab yet but the Saab crossbars I used with my 2005 Saab 9-5 wagon fit nicely on the 9-4X. I use these mostly for transporting a kayak and windsurfer and they are perfect for that. One disadvantage of a higher roof like on the 9-4X is that it is much more difficult to secure a load. I am taller than average but I really have to stand on my toes to secure a load with straps. It was much easier with my 9-5.

    Name:  6588d1322449810-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 1896
Size:  84.6 KB

    Color of this Saab 9-4X is Diamond Silver. Other available colors for 2011 are Birch White, Moorland Bronze and Zodiac Black. I prefer lighter colors and silver has always been one of my favorites.

    The tail lights are very unique and span across the entire width of the hatch. This 9-4X does not have a fog light in the back which seems a bit unusual. The string of red lights across the hatch is one of my favorite features and looks like no other car on the road.

    Name:  6589d1322451098-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 5549
Size:  56.6 KB

    Engine

    Almost all reviews in the press cover the 2.8T engine in the Aero model and there isn't much written about the base 3.0i engine. Words you often see in reviews are 'underpowered' and 'not as good as the 2.8T'. And that is too bad because it is quite a capable engine and fits the 9-4X very well.

    Name:  6585d1322445992-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 3816
Size:  88.1 KB
    Engine cover removed for this picture

    The 3.0i V6 LF1 engine is part of the GM High Feature (HFV6) engine family, the same as the 2.8T V6 in other Saab models. These engines were first designed by Cadillac and Holden and are manufactured in North America and Australia. The LF1 version in the 9-4X is equipped with Direct Gasoline Injection. Unlike regular fuel injection where gasoline/petrol is injected in the intake port, fuel is directly injected in the combustion chamber of each cylinder. The main advantages are increased fuel efficiency, higher power output and lower emissions.

    Engine Power (hp / kW) RPM Torque (lb-ft / Nm RPM
    3.0i 265 / 198 6,950 223 / 302 5,100
    2.8T 300 / 221 5,500 295 / 400 5,000

    Official numbers from Saab show 0-60 mph with the 2.8T engine is 7.7 seconds and slightly higher for the 3.0 engine at 7.9 seconds. The higher torque numbers for the 2.8T engine probably allow for lower rpms with regular driving. While the 3.0i engine doesn't mind being pushed, it needs to downshift when accelerating or even going uphill. I haven't driven the 9-4X Aero but I am familar with the 2.8 engine from my 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero. It is a wonderful engine choice for the 9-3 and I am sure it fits in very nice with the 9-4X as well.

    If you haven't driven the 9-4X with the 3.0i engine, the lack of a turbo and the lower power and torque numbers are perhaps a bit of a disappointment. While it is not the fastest Saab I have owned, it still is a very good engine and has more than enough power for daily use. It is very responsive between 20 - 60 mph / 35 - 100 km/h and is sufficient for most people.

    Name:  6586d1322448169-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 2078
Size:  51.6 KB
    3.0i V6 LF1 engine

    It does lack bit of power when you're trying to pass another car at 55 mph. I was used to the power and torque in my 2005 9-5 Aero before this 9-4X and accelerating from 55 mph often caused uncontrollable laughter because of the instant and very quick acceleration. I definitely had to get used to the different or lack of power in the 9-4X and it can be scary when you try to pass and not much happens when you floor the gas pedal. While it is a good engine, it definitely lacks the feel of a turbo engine and especially the B235R Saab engine. Some of the passion is missing. Too bad we can't have a 9-4X equipped with the 260hp 2.3T B235R engine.

    This 3.0i engine is also used in some or all model years of the Buick LaCrosse, Cadillac CTS, Chevrolet Equinox, Holden Commodore and a few others. It was used in the Cadillac SRX for the 2010-2011 model years but Cadillac decided to make the 3.6L naturally aspirated engine the only engine for model year 2012 and up.

    Transmission

    The 3.0i engine is paired with a 6-speed Hydra-Matic 6T70 automatic transmission while the 2.8T engine has a Aisin AF40 six-speed automatic transmission. Gear shifts felt a bit clunky in the lower gears in the beginning but it is getting smoother after the engine and transmission have been broken in after a few thousand miles. Gear shifts in automatic mode are quick and there really isn't anything to complain about. There is manual mode where you can select and shift gears with the shift lever. It is not something I would use often but it can be helpful if you want to use engine braking when going downhill.

    When you drive with the cruise control on, speed is regulated by automatic up-shifting of the transmission if you're going downhill and exceed the set speed at more than 5 mph. There is a Comfort and Sport mode setting for the transmission. Sport mode moves the shift points to a higher rpm and also seems to provide a bit more engine braking when holding gears a bit longer. There is a gear indicator on the dash when the transmission is in Sport mode so you can see which gear you are in. This shows for both automatic and manual mode.

    There is not much else to say about the transmission. It shifts smoothly and shouldn't require any maintenance. I have owned several GM vehicles and their drive-trains are usually very reliable. As it is shared with other GM vehicles, repairs should be possible and parts available at GM dealers in case of an emergency if there is no Saab dealer nearby.

    Name:  6590d1322451387-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-1-exterior-engine-transmission-2011-.jpg
Views: 7440
Size:  43.0 KB

  2. #2
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Jul 2010
    Location
    USA - Netherlands
    Posts
    7,904
    Saab(s)
    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X
    Interior

    No matter how good the exterior looks, it is inside where we spend most of our time. The interior of the 9-4X is very similar to the current 9-5 in design. While I have sat in the new 9-5 many times, I have never actually driven on. Coming from the first generation 9-5, the 9-4X feels a bit large inside at first. I had to get used to the thicker A-pillars. It seems they are farther away from the driver than in the 9-5 so they don't actually block as much of the view to the outside as you would expect.

    After owning the 9-4X for a few months, I am really liking the larger size as it gives the cabin a very open feel. Where the dash is vertical in the 1st gen 9-5 and current 9-3, the 9-4X lower dash slopes away from the driver, enhancing the sense of open feel. I can easily reach all heater, audio and other controls without the need to get my back out of the seat. It was actually a bit of shock how my 2005 9-5 felt quite small and a bit cramped inside when I drove it again after a couple of weeks. The 9-4X has a lot of legroom and it is easy to get very comfortable.

    Name:  6607d1322542084-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 9937
Size:  61.9 KB


    The dash may look a bit too simple and boring at first when compared to the competitors. But that's the strength of the Saab interiors for me. As with exteriors, many interiors are over-styled and are just a visual overload. All materials in the 9-4X have a good quality feel and a great improvement from other Saabs. The door handles, for example, have a rubber-like coating on the inside and just feel solid. The main black dash panels have some kind of metallic coating which gives it some depth, especially on a sunny day. Switches and knobs feel solid with a nice feel and feedback to them.

    The metallic accents around the shifter, gauges, steering wheel controls and the door pull give the interior a quality yet subdued look. The faux-stitching on the upper part of the dash is a nice touch, even though you know it is not leather. The artificial wood trim looks much better than the 2011 9-5. While it is still man-made material (I pulled of part of the trim to make sure), it doesn't offend at all.

    There are three colors available: Parchment, Shark Grey and Jet Black. I like light interior colors and really wanted Parchment. However, that color is only available on the base model and not on the Premium and Aero. I don't really understand what the reason is for that. I am not a huge fan of grey but it brightens up the interior a little bit more than all black. I think other seating and accent colors like a rich chocolate brown or more red/orangy as you see with some BMW and Audi interiors would look great in the 9-4X as well. Saab could be a little bit more creative with interior colors.

    Name:  6603d1322542077-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 10767
Size:  66.2 KB

    Like others who see the interior in pictures, I didn't like the green information display for the radio and climate controls at first. After getting used to it after a few months, I am really starting to appreciate the way it looks, the information displayed and the easy viewing of information in day/sun light and darkness. It blends in perfectly with the other dash lights and now I am actually glad it is a monochrome display. It displays information about the audio you're listening to like XM satellite radio with artist and song information and iPods and other music players. More about the infotainment system will follow later. It also shows the temperature readout for the interior and exterior.

    There is quite a lot of storage. The glove box is pretty large, has the cooling vents like other Saabs and has a separate shelf for smaller items. There are two pockets in the doors. The larger common map pocket on the bottom and a smaller one perfect for cell phones and other small items. The storage area under the arm rest is divided into two separate areas as well. The lower part is very large and has a 12V, 3.5mm Aux-in and USB port. The upper storage is smaller and perfect for car registration/insurance documents, pens, wallet and other small things.

    Name:  6604d1322542079-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 3443
Size:  70.0 KB

    As in other newer Saabs, the dash lighting is perfect with green and white for everything. As a fan of the button dash in the 2003-2006 9-3, I really like all the buttons for audio, climate and other controls. And it all is easy to operate, even in the dark. The Night Panel feature is familiar from other Saabs but it could darken a few more lights for my taste. The gauge faces and needles look very nice and are easy to read. With the 3.0i engine, you obviously don't get a turbo gauge and this is replaced with a MPG (miles per gallon) gauge. Unfortunately, it is pretty useless but I guess designers had to put something there.

    The steering wheel could be a little thicker for me. The one in the 9-4X Aero feels just a bit nicer. A cover for the cupholders would be nice when they are not in use. However, these are the best cupholders in a Saab so far. I usually take a large water bottle and coffee mug when going on short and long trips. I was always very scared using the dash cupholders in the 9-3 and 9-5 and the holders in the 9-4X are perfect. It has a horizontal divider to allow for small and larger cups or bottles and should fit anything from a 12 oz coffee cup to a 24 oz water bottle. Or an extra large fast food soft drink or 7-Eleven Slurpee.

    Name:  6602d1322542076-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 1904
Size:  57.1 KB

    Seats

    Seats are one of the most important features in a vehicle for me. The seats in the 9-4X feel quite hard if you are used to seats in other Saabs like the 9-3 and 9-5. I am not sure if they have gotten a little bit softer in the first few months but they are very comfortable after you get used to them. I still had my 2005 9-5 Aero for more than a month after I bought the 9-4X. After driving the 9-4X for a month and getting back in the 9-5, those seats felt a bit too soft and mushy and I actually preferred the harder 9-4X seats.

    Name:  6610d1322542088-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 8009
Size:  47.4 KB

    Many agree the Saab 9-5 sport seats are pretty much perfect and very comfortable while still offering good side support. However, the 9-4X seats are even better for me. I am about 6'2' tall and weigh about 210 lbs. While the 9-5 sport seats were the best I have had in any car, the seat bottom was a bit too short for me. I experience this in most cars, especially from Japanese manufacturers. I looked at the new Subaru Outback once and the very short seat was an immediate deal breaker for me.

    The leather is quite a nice quality. It feels soft to the touch but still appears durable. I say it is on par with the 1998-2005 9-5 and better than grainy and pleather feel of the 2006 9-5 and 2006 9-3. Seats are wider than the 1st gen 9-5 and are a bit more comfortable for cruising long distances. However, they don't offer as much side support when cornering so you may slide around a bit during spirited driving. This is a crossover and not a car build for handling like a 9-3 Aero so it isn't an issue for me.

    One of the best features of the 9-4X seats is the seat bottom extender. The seat bottom is about the same length as the first generation 9-5 sport seats when not extended. The extension can be set in a few different positions and extends the seat with 2“ / 5 cms when all the way out. I really like the feel of the bottom almost touching my inner knee and is very comfortable on long rides. This extension is standard equipment in every 9-4X. The Base, Premium and Aero all have they the same seats.

    Name:  6609d1322542086-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 7036
Size:  29.9 KB

    Seating position and Visibility

    With many cars and crossovers these days, function (and visibility) follows form. Windows seem to be getting smaller, blind spots bigger and the view outside is getting worse. I was very happy to find out the outward visibility to the front and sides is excellent. Windows are large and the view towards the front is very open as mentioned before. Just perfect.

    As with most Saabs, the 9-4X interior seems to be perfectly molded around the driver. You really feel you're sitting in it (not on it) and everything is within reach. Besides a few minor issues, it really is the best interior I have had in a Saab. I usually get annoyed by small things pretty quickly but there isn't anything like that in the 9-4X interior for me. It just feels right.

    The dark tinted rear side and back windows give a nice sense of security and privacy while not obstructing the view outside, even in the dark. The view towards the back is not so good. The C-pillars are quite large and it is difficult to see what is behind the vehicle when backing up. I have come to rely on the rear-view camera and side mirrors because looking over your shoulder when backing up is challenging. While the view towards the back could be much better, it hasn't been a problem for me so far. It is something you live with and get used to.

    When I checked out the current 9-5, I was not impressed with the outward visibility at all. The side windows seemed small and the window sill was near shoulder level. In the 9-4X, the sill is about halfway between my shoulder and elbow. The large door and center armrest are positioned perfectly. The 2006 9-3 just didn't fit me very well as my head was next to the B-pillar with the seat all the way back and the door armrest was useless.

    Name:  6606d1322542081-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 8628
Size:  65.8 KB

    The rear seats seem comfortable with sufficient leg room for most people. In this picture, the driver seat is all the way back. I never sit in the back seat so I can't comment on the comfort on longer trips. There are two different positions for the rear seat backs. There is a pass-through for large items like skies when the center arm rest is folded down.

    The optional panorama sunroof lets in a lot of light so the cabin feels very open, even on an overcast or dreary winter day. The only problem with the roof is the poorly designed wind deflector that comes up when the roof slides open. It is vertical and made of some kind of cloth material. When the roof is all the way open and going faster than say 50 mph, there is a wind blast right on the top of your head. The wind blast goes away when the roof is only half open or you push the deflector down a little bit. And the deflector looks pretty ugly as well. Saab can do better with this design.

    Name:  6608d1322542085-2011-saab-9-4x-long-term-owners-review-part-2-interior-seats-visibility-saab-9-4.jpg
Views: 5301
Size:  82.6 KB

  3. #3
    Frank
    Administrator nordwulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Jul 2010
    Location
    USA - Netherlands
    Posts
    7,904
    Saab(s)
    previous: 2006 9-3, 2001-06 9-5, 2011 9-4X
    Name:  7061d1329364719-2011-saab-9-4x-owners-review-part-3-performance-handling-equipment-saab-9-4x-wil.jpg
Views: 5024
Size:  73.6 KB
    Wilderness State Park, Michigan

    The Saab 9-4X weighs a hefty 4,400 lbs with the 3.0i engine. The Aero is even heavier and can tip the scale up to 4,700 pounds. I owned a 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer for a couple of years and it had the typical ride of an SUV. Heavy, pretty slow, vague steering, an engine that ran out of breath beyond 4K rpm and a bit of a mushy suspension. So my expectations of a crossover with similar size and weight were not that high.

    While it still is a heavy vehicle, it sure feels pretty quick. The engine likes to rev and has pretty good power all the way up to 5.5 to 6K rpm. It is also a slow-revving and quiet engine when you want it to be. At 55 mph - 90 km/h, you can't hear the engine at all, mostly because it only turns at 1600 revolutions per minute. And that's quite impressive as well.

    Check out the video for 0-60 mph in about 8 seconds: link

    The brake pedal feel is typically Saab and harder than many other vehicles, especially from Asian origin. I am used to it and prefer it that way. I haven't made any panic stops or did any other brake testing but the brakes are up to the task of stopping the 9-4X.

    Steering feel is excellent. The ratio is just perfect and the hydraulic power assist has the usual natural feel I have come to know from my 9-5 and 9-3. It probably requires more effort to turn the steering wheel compared to other crossovers but this gives the feel you're actually driving the 9-4X. The turning radius is much smaller than I expected and feels similar to the first generation 9-5. And that's a great accomplishment for the size of the vehicle. I expected the 18" tires with taller sidewalls not to be very communicative but they give a nice feel of the road without feeling soft.

    Name:  7060d1329364718-2011-saab-9-4x-owners-review-part-3-performance-handling-equipment-saab-9-4x-pro.jpg
Views: 1655
Size:  93.3 KB
    UP of Michigan looking towards Canada

    Many journalists wrote about driving the 9-4X and how it feels more like driving a car than a mid-sized crossover. And they are completely right. Even in the base trim without the adjustable Aero suspension, it actually is fun to drive. The suspension is firm but still soaks up bumps and potholes quite nicely. As a matter of fact, the suspension could be just a bit softer for regular driving on Michigan roads. But the better handling is worth the firmer suspension.

    It is surprising the suspension feel is so good considering the size of the wheels and tires. The 9-4X 3.0i in base and Premium trim is equipped with Michelin Latitude Tour HP all-season tires 235/65HR18. You would think the tall sidewall wouldn't be good for handling so it is all the more surprising how well Saab tuned the suspension. The Latitude tires have a 55K warranty but time will tell how good they are going to hold up.

    I purchased this 9-4X from a Saab/Cadillac dealership and the salesman said the 9-4x is much more fun to drive than the SRX. I should test drive one of those some day to see how it compares to the 9-4X.

    Noise comfort is excellent as well. There hardly is any wind noise even over 70mph and you can't hear any tire noise either. It's the quietest Saab I have owned so far. These are the little things that make all the difference.

    Fuel economy

    I have been keeping track of all fill-ups since I bought the 9-4X. In the last 4,500 miles, I am getting an average of 20.3 mpg with regular fuel. At the current prices, regular fuel has a price advantage to premium of about 1.5 mpg. When you compare this to the 25.6 mpg average of my 2005 Saab 9-5 Aero, the adjusted 21.8 mpg of this 9-4X seems very reasonable, considering it is much heavier and taller.

    Name:  7059d1329364717-2011-saab-9-4x-owners-review-part-3-performance-handling-equipment-saab-9-4x-lak.jpg
Views: 1675
Size:  58.1 KB
    Lake Michigan near Petoskey

    Equipment

    The base Saab 9-4X comes with a nice list of standard features.

    You can get the Power package on the base for $1,385 and you get quite a lot of features for the money.

    • Driver's seat, mirrors and pedals memory
    • Electrically adjustable pedals
    • Heated front seats
    • Auto-dimming interior mirror
    • Power tailgate
    • Rear-view camera


    The Premium model costs $3,870 more than the base model ($2,485 more than the Power package) and includes all equipment from the Power Package plus:

    • High-pressure headlight washers
    • Premium alloy wheels (basically the same 18" as the base but different finish)
    • Ambient lightning
    • Ventilated front seats
    • Rain-sensing windshield wipers
    • Keyless passive entry
    • Remote star
    • Universal remote garage door opener
    • Power passenger front seat
    • 10-speaker Bose Audio system with 5.1 surround sound (base system has 7 speakers)
    • Auto-dimming outside mirrors
    • Power folding mirrors


    The Technology Package for $1,350 includes Bi-Xenon cornering headlights and Parking Assistance. Rear seat audio and video is $1,845 and the Infotainment Navigation system $2,395. For complete details about equipment, you can download the brochure here: link

    Ambient lighting provides a few extra interior lights in the foot wells. There also is a faint green spotlight in the overhead console which illuminates the center console just slightly. The door handles also have a faint glow. I first thought it was going to be annoying but it gives a luxurious feel when driving in the dark. It gives a sense of the interior without being distracting.

    Name:  7058d1329364715-2011-saab-9-4x-owners-review-part-3-performance-handling-equipment-saab-9-4x-cli.jpg
Views: 1622
Size:  107.5 KB

    I used to have ventilated front seats in my Saab 9-5 and they are very nice to have when it is hot and humid outside. They don't seem to have the same kind of cooling power as the 9-5 but they also are not as loud. It is definitely a nice upgrade in the 9-4X.

    Keyless passive entry is something that I never thought I needed but it has become a feature that is now difficult to live without. You can leave the key in your pocket and the door will automatically unlock when you pull the handle. Locking the 9-4X only requires touching the door handle. This is in addition to the standard lock and unlock buttons on the remote. I usually don't like have anything in my pockets when I drive but the remote is small enough so it doesn't bother me at all. If you leave the remote in the 9-4X and exit, the horn will sound twice. You can't lock the car if there is still a remote inside.

    The auto-dimming mirrors are another feature I can't live without anymore. You sometimes forget you have this as optional equipment until you drive another car that doesn't have it. I do not have the package with parking sensors on mine but the rearview camera with the monitor built in the rearview mirror is a great alternative and works just as good as parking sensors. There is quite a large blindspot towards the back so the camera is pretty essential for backing up.

    Remote start has always been a bit controversial for me. They say it is best for the engine to start and drive away. However, I do prefer to have the engine running a few minutes before I start driving just to get all the fluids going and defrost the rear window. The remote start makes that very easy so you won't have to get into the car, start the car (requires pushing the brake pedal), get out and clear ice or snow from the windows. I don't use it to let the engine idle for 15 minutes to warm up the interior.

    All the extras are not necessary for enjoying the 9-4X or any other modern car but the toys are nice to have. And many of them are very useful as well.

    Name:  7062d1329364721-2011-saab-9-4x-owners-review-part-3-performance-handling-equipment-saab-9-4x-wil.jpg
Views: 1831
Size:  72.5 KB
    Wilderness State Park, Michigan

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:14.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.