Saab 9-5 - Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) change - 2.3t and 2.3T

[bobimihi]

Hi!
Here's what I found on another SAAB forum ( Saab Forum : Forums for the Saab 900, 9000, 9-3, 9-5, 9-3SS, 9-2x & 9-7 and Saabscene :: Saab Forum - Saab Technical Information Resource ) I did my best to gather a summary. It's about the type of oil, in automatic transmission:
The early 9-5 4-spd autobox does NOT use 3309.
But can be used at the request of the owner of the car.

FOR Saab 9-5 cars with five-speed automatic transmission:
Do not use other fluids for this project, no matter what the guy at the auto parts store says. Use only oil meeting the standards JWS-3309

3309 is a Jap standard JWS-3309 created for Aisin Warner 5-spd boxes and 6-spd boxes (Toyota owns part/all of Aisin Seiki). 3309 is made by Mobil for everyone. Exactly same as Toyota Type-4 (IV) except for price.
It is NOT synthetic oil as far as I can tell.
3309 is modified for slip-controlled friction plate lockup. Could be there is something special about the friction plates. The 3309 spec is very, very important for the Aisin Warner automatic gearbox. When the ATF is changed, it'll be a pinky red and should stay this way for some time and only slowly change to a brownish color over a number of years. If it's a blackish color or has a burnt smell it's recommended to change it asap.
Not all suitable oils contained in its name 3309.
In the specification, they should be defined to satisfy the standard JWS - 3309!!!

With us here in Bulgaria, the service features a special machine for single oil change in the automatic gearbox.
This is very convenient. For a complete oil change is required 10 liters new oil.
Here is how such a machine:



It is very comfortable and you do not need to change it three times.
Here is a description of the operation of the machine:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
Some more useful information:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
I chose this oil:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
From
RAVENOL ATF T-IV Fluid - www.ravenol-shop.de
Home - Ravenol
Why? Because it has the best viscosity index 210. What is viscosity index read here:
Viscosity index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For comparison, see the viscosity index of these oils:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
HIGHTEC-Lubricants "made in Germany" | ROWE Motor Oil
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing
ADDINOL Lube Oil GmbH

Everything said here about five or six speed automatic transmission applies to models of Saab 9-3SS from MY 09/2002.

I hope I've been helpful!
BOBI

[bobimihi]

Then I did a job and wrote a letter to Welcome
Here is their response (copy it from my e-mail):

Dear Mr. B........ M.........., (Here are spelled my name)

Regarding this question, I would like to advise like below:
Firstly, The D3 or D6 are NOT the standard for Japanese=Aisin transmission, for GM cars.
But the old D2E and D3 are similar for T4. I believe you can apply D3 for 4 speed transmission. It won't cause a serious problem, but may feel the different shifting for a while.
Secondly, 5 speed transmissions: if the color of ATF is totally black and smell burnt, it means the disc plate in the transmission has already burnt. The burnt disc plate may cause slip.
Slip means the transmission cannot expect the smooth shift.
In addition, if this transmission is "Slip controlled", the situation is worse. "Slip controlled" is the system to aim better fuel consumption.
Usually, the shifts will be changed from 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. But each shift has a gap to change the shift. It causes bad fuel consumption.
Under the slip controlled, for example, 2nd gear will be slipped when the rounding of engine became higher.
In the same time, 3rd gear will start. Not waiting the regular shift, two gears will work in the same time, it makes efficient control.
This kind of transmission is required a particular ATF like T4 or, Aisin ATF.

Before replace the ATF, you may consider and understand that the transmission itself has already broken.
Therefore you could apply T4 but you should recognize the transmission itself is almost dead.
Hope this comment will bring you satisfaction.

For further question or action, I should recommend you to contact your car dealer who will have perhaps another conclusion or advice.

Best Regards,

Philippe Vanderborck
Sales Manager
After market Division

AISIN EUROPE SA
Avenue de l'Industrie, 21
1420 Braine-l'Alleud
Belgium
Tel: + 32 2 389 4331
Mobile: +32 (0)473 33 6496
Fax: + 32 2 387 06 33
e-mail: philippe.vanderborck@be.aisin-europe.com
Visit our website http:// Aisin Europe Aftermarket : homepage


A little more info:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzHT...it?usp=sharing

[AT ONE SIR]

Bump.

For my 2001 9-5 Wagon:

The Saab Owner's manual I downloaded here says: Texaco Texamatic Dexron III (mineral oil based) (page 256)

The Haynes Manual I purchased (#4156) lists Saab ATF fluid 3309 (mineral oil based) --OR-- Dexron III ATF (page 0-17)

????

[nordwulf]

Does the Haynes manual specify the 4 and 5-speed transmissions? 2001 has the 4-speed so you'll need the Dexron for yours.

[AT ONE SIR]

Does the Haynes manual specify the 4 and 5-speed transmissions?

It does differentiate between the two (FA47 and FA57) on page 7B-1, but doesn't assign which ATF goes with each transmission

2001 has the 4-speed so you'll need the Dexron for yours.

After all the reading and time spent on what should be a dead simple "lookup", it has been uncommonly hard to find the "correct" fluid. The local Saab indy garage uses either THIS or THIS Redline ATF (website recommends D4 ATF) for all transmission work. However, it is synthetic, and the WIS specifically says DO NOT use synthetic. Lead mechanic looked it up himself while I was there and was surprised -- his feeling was that is old circa 1999 information and the new synthetics are superior. He's never had any complaints about his transmission work in the years he has been using this fluid.

At this point, I'm pretty frustrated that I can't just get a straight answer on which ATF to use on my 2001 9-5 Wagon! Kind of ridiculous, really when you just want to take care of your car with some simple maintenance.

[bobimihi]

@AT ONE SIR
If your automatic transmission is 4 speed, you can use Dexron III. I think it is a 4 speed. For even better performance of the gearbox, use gear oil meeting the standard JWS 3309.
You do not forget that from 2001 until now elapsed time. 5 speed automatic transmission has been in use since 2002. The new oil is better. All that is written above.
Here the choice is yours, because oil meeting the standard JWS 3309 is more expensive than Dexron III.
Personally I would change the oil on my 4 speed automatic transmission with oil meeting the standard JWS 3309.


If your automatic transmission is 5 speed (also in each SAAB 9-3 SS with 5 or 6 speed auto gearbox), you can use only oil meeting the standard JWS 3309!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The description of each oil for automatic gearbox says if that it meets the standard JWS3309. Any oil with a name Type IV (4) meets this standard.

If you are from Europe, I would easily recommend your online store. Use Google dammit! For example, you go to an online store that sells oils (gear oils). The site of the store has a search engine. You writing there JWS 3309. You get results.

Or do you want to be told exact brand oil? This is not serious! Everyone has a choice. I chose German quality oil!

Do not forget your user manual (the Haynes manual) is written in ..... 2001....long ago.
Aisin engineers have developed a new material, including requirements for oil automatic transmission. Now if you're not clear, write a letter addressed to AISIN North America or AISIN USA and inquire.

Success!

BOBI

[bobimihi]

Here's what I answered in writing by the AISIN EUROPE SA:

Dear Sir,
The best for you is to contact that oil supplier.
If this oil manufacturer understand what is T4, means it clears T4 standard, I would say it could be applied the same oil for 4 speed.

One additional information; Be care for the amount of fluid.
ATF is very easy to expand or shrink by temperature of the oil. The most frequent trouble is different amount.
Usually, people takes out the fluid while the transmission is hot. But sometimes he pour exactly same amount from “cold” can.
Considering the expansion, it is too much.

In Japan, the special tool called ATF changer calculates the weight of oil that has been taken, and pour exactly same weight from cold can.
If you does not have the tool, when you take the old fluid, wait for a while until the old oil will be cooled down.
After cooled down, check the amount and pour the exact same amount of new oil.


Best Regards,

Philippe Vanderborck
Sales Manager
After market Division




AISIN EUROPE SA
Avenue de l'Industrie, 21
1420 Braine-l'Alleud
Belgium
Tel: + 32 2 389 4331
Mobile: +32 (0)473 33 6496
Fax: + 32 2 387 06 33
e-mail: philippe.vanderborck@be.aisin-europe.com
Visit our website http:// www.be.aisin-europe.com

[MI-Roger]

It does differentiate between the two (FA47 and FA57) on page 7B-1, but doesn't assign which ATF goes with each transmission



After all the reading and time spent on what should be a dead simple "lookup", it has been uncommonly hard to find the "correct" fluid. The local Saab indy garage uses either THIS or THIS Redline ATF (website recommends D4 ATF) for all transmission work. However, it is synthetic, and the WIS specifically says DO NOT use synthetic. Lead mechanic looked it up himself while I was there and was surprised -- his feeling was that is old circa 1999 information and the new synthetics are superior. He's never had any complaints about his transmission work in the years he has been using this fluid.

At this point, I'm pretty frustrated that I can't just get a straight answer on which ATF to use on my 2001 9-5 Wagon! Kind of ridiculous, really when you just want to take care of your car with some simple maintenance.

A 2001 9-5 was equipped with the 4-speed automatic. You need Dexron-VI, which superceded the now discontinued Dexron-III (somehow GM skipped over the Dexron-IV and Dexron-V names).

You can also use one of the various fluids with label identifiers such as MD-3 which is a code for Mercon/Dexron-III equivalent fluids since GM no longer allows anyone to label their ATF as Dexron-III.

[bobimihi]

@MI-Roger
It's OK.
This oil is changed at long intervals. There is no need to save a little money. I trust the recommendations of the AISIN. Even a four-speed automatic transmission I think it's better to be filled with oil Type T IV, or any meeting the standard JWS 3309.
Personally, I will do that. Everyone is free to make their choice.
Cheers!
BOBI

[bobimihi]

Hi all!
Forgot to quote another letter from Andreas, from Saab & Volvo Repair Specialist in Los Angeles and the South Bay

Question:
HI!
I'm from Sofia, Bulgaria.
My car SAAB 9-5, MY 1998, 2.0 LPT, 150 Hp, has a 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Аnswer:
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:20 AM
To: anders@swedecar.com
Subject: Service Request from Swedecar.com

Hi
Your car doesn't really need the 3309 fluid but is ok with using the Dexron III fluid.
But if you don't mind paying extra for the 3309 it is no real harm using it in the older transmissions.
In your case I would probably go with the newer GM fluid called Dexron VI which is what GM is superseding all older Dexron fluids to.
Good luck
Anders

Cheers!
BOBI